I wrung the 2506AI out a lil today

[j_22250]

that's what i was gonna say. the difference in .243 and .25 is only .007"! ballistically a 6mm cal is better than 25 cal. given your shooting same type and same weight bullets and at the same velocity. i cant' say it enough when i talk to people and they still don't believe me. if i tell them my 243 is better the will still favor their 25-06 over it and look at me like i'm crazy. even if my .243 is shooting the same 100gr. at the same speeds as their 25-06. the difference in trajectory will only be about 2" flatter at 500yrds. well, the heck with those idiots for being ignorant. if i have a 243ai and you have your 25-06 and we both shoot 100gr. bullets at 3,300 fps. mine will be better theorically, but will it shoot better? maybe, maybe not.  did i spend more $$$ on my rifle or did you on yours? if were hunting together and i don't see anything, but you happen to shoot a deer, does tht make you a better hunter?  man i've heard everything you jst typed so many times before that it sometimes makes me sick. seems like we are both good knowledgable people and i'm not going to go back and forth on this like a bunch of kids. as far as i'm concerned enoughs been said and their is no need to continue. who cares if my 270wsm is better than your 25-06, i certainly could care less.

i like to go hunting and i own enough guns to were i have a decent selection to choose from and i'm sure you do to. so jst be happy with what you do and what you got and go enjoy yourself. it doesn't matter who has a bigger gun,  jst use it.....and if walmart doesn't get some shells in anytime soon i'm gonna shoot deer with my .22!!!

[j_22250]

"Look at it this way 22 caliber is .224" in diameter, now look at a 30 cal gun .308" diameter.  That is a difference of .084", can you honestly say an animal is going to notice the difference of .084"?"

real life yes there is a difference and if bullets mushroom out to twice they're size than it makes a bigger difference. take a 308 and a 22, then shoot them at the same speed which one will cause more damage? if it is even possible to make the 2 the same weight i would choose .308. every time. for the simple fact that it causes more trauma and the animal will bleed out faster. i've seen it, it's true and there is a difference. you take your 22 and i'll take my 308 w/ same weight bullets and speed. my deer may run 20 while yours 50. yours may drop and mine might run, even if i got shot in the pumper and you got a double lung. and if you still don't believe me then let me ask you this. if you had a choice to be shot with a 22 cal. or a 44 cal. or even a .308 for the sake of argument, which would you rather take a hit from? to be fair about it lets say they're both the same weight and traveling at the same speed. you take your pick on weight and speed and jst to top things off lets say these bullets don't expand any at all, let's jst say they are fmj's. i'm curious to hear your answer, but at this point i don't really care what it is.

okay now i'm done.

[outlawkyote]

  Funkydiscobeaver; is that you?

  LMAO... Ive killed more deer in two years doing crop damage controle work than youve killed your whole life.
  You wouldnt kill anything lager than deer with your 270? Why? is it inferior? I kill buffalo with my 2506 and the lights go right out.

 Tell you what, you go start a thread about your 270 and I'll be an @$$ ( like yourself) and come over and rain on your parade. Your talking about standard cartridges in a wildcat reloading section.

[outlawkyote]

  Just to set the record strait

  Here is your 243AI (that you suggested would compete with the 2506) with a 100gr bullet at 3300fps. (I dont think you can get it that fast but I did it anyhow)



 Here is my 2506 (plain jane) with the 100gr bullets at 3400fps ( thats how fast I run them)



Here is "my" 2506AI with the 100gr bullets running 3850fps (this is my recent velocity I was getting with my 2506AI)



 Here is your 270wsm with 100gr bullets at your suggested velocity of 3600fps.



my printer might be running out of ink but your balistic calculator isnt working right either
   Looks to me as though the plane jane 2506 actually beat out the 243AI  and my 2506AI beats your 270wsm out by a large margin.
  These calculations are based on "published BCs" and not calculated BCs based on velocity. As we all know, the higher the velocity, the higher the BCs.

[outlawkyote]

  Just for another record...lol
  Many people here may not know that velocity DOES effect balistic coeficients.
  For an example, when I was running my modified 224clark (6mm rem necked down to 224 cal and shoulders blown out to 30 degrees) the listed BC for the 80gr SMK were .420 but at a velocity of 3700fps, the "calculated" BCs went up to .600.
  I calculated the BCs by taking velocity measurements at 100-200-300yds and matched them up with my balistic calculator until I got the "calculated" BCs

Now an 80gr SMK running 3700fps has a trajectory that looks like this.

 

 As the BCs go up, the energy also goes up and you would be very impressed to see just how fast deer drop when hit with this setup.

  Now, ya'll know why Im chasing velocity as opposed to BCs. A high BC bullet being pushed really hard has very impressive trajectory. A high BC bullet being pushed along at a slow pace is just another marble in the marble bag to me.

[j_22250]

your full of bull. if a 25-06ai can run a 100 gr. at 3850, then a 270wsm can certainly do the same or better and if it can't than i am certainly the next one in line to buy a 25-06, and i guarantee you it will be the cheapest pile i can find, cuz that is what i think they are worth. when shooting those lighter bullets the .25 cal will always have the advantage over a 270 and i give you that, but if you do not beleive a 243ai can acheive a velocity of 3300fps w/ a 100gr. bullet than i encorage you to actually go and find out for yourself, by spending at least a couple hundred dollars. if a hot 243 load can push them at 3100fps than why cant the ai version be able to do at least 200fps more? after all your 25-06ai is pushing them 400fps more than usual and lights out on baffalo with a 25-06? what? do you shoot them point blank in a cage or what? i can't beleive i'm actually doing this right now. i don't care about your quarter bore hand cannon and i am quite happy with my current caliber of choice so why aren't you? it's obviously that your not or you wouldn't be on here trying to prove it? jst take me as some fool on the internet talking about something i know nothing about....i honestly don't really care. i myself tho, as a responsible hunter would rather shoot at a baffalo with a .277 cal. than a .25 cal. and if we lived in the early 1900's then i certainly wouldn't think twice about shooting one with a 30-30.

 if i were you, i would def. check into getting my chronograph looked at cuz i think it may be off a couple hundred fps off.

p.s i hope your not that same fool i've been talking about that always pisses me off when he talks about how great his rusty old peice of scrap iron is.

the speeds i posted were an educated guess and so your research doesnt' really mean all that much to me. if you want i can contact you when i have an actual load for 90 gr. bullets in my 270wsm. which may be never, but  i jst thoughr i would be nice and offer tho.

[Nitroused383]

No point in argueing, all I am saying shoot what you are comfortable with because they will all kill if you hit them in the right spot.  Why limit yourself to one gun.  I have a custom 3000 RUM that shoots 125 noslers @ 3950 FPS, yes thats nice but its far from what the gun is meant for.  My 25-06 ai is my deer gun and I enjoy it, I built it so its what I wanted.  The 25-06 ai has a pretty big bite for its non magnum status.  Please don't disrespect outlawkyote just because you have personal issues with some guy and his pile of scrap.  Outlaw has provided a ton of great info over the years and he has no agendas to prove.  He likes 25-06's and they work great for him.  It sounds like you have some personal issues against the 25-06 but not personal experience actually using it so settle down.  I am pretty sure his load and setup are posted on here.  30" barrel 1-9" twist 62 grains of RL 22 with fed 210 primers.  He also has a load around here with 100 grain matchkings that he did a 30 shot group with that was pretty damn impressive.

[savageboy]

You know, I really like this site for the info, the great group of enthusiasts that share a common love of accurate shooting on somewhat of a budget (we are into Savages not custom BAT actions,etc aren't we?) It really stinks when someone starts a nice informative thread and someone else has an opinion- thats ok, but when we start this 3rd grade I gotta be right crap while I'm sitting behind the keyboard... it kinda ruins what I believe the intent of this site originally was.  We are all on the same team here- We= gun owners, we stick together.
The ones that want to take ur guns- they= the bad people that we need to stick together against!!

[outlawkyote]

  I think your just struggling with an inferiority complex.

  By all means.... Look me up when you get that 270 and 90's shooting. 

[j_22250]

thanks for putting your insults in the nicest way possible. i'm going to have to google inferiortity complex, cuz i don't know what it means. hahahaha. i'm kidding, listen let me apoligize if i offended anyone. outlaw you seem  like a very knowledgable guy, but and in all honesty a 30" barrel heck, thats jst not very menuveralbe at all. one of my custom guns has a 26" barrel and it's almost too damn long to hunt with. no i do not own a 25-06 i've shot them and i like the fact they have a light recoil and plenty of power. yes, even i will admit it has one of the best reputations for a long range deer caliber. i have checked into gettin one on more than one occasion and all the load data tht i have ever looked at stops at around 3400fps with lighter bullets. trust me, i have done more than my fair share of reasearch in pursuite of the perfect cartridge, damn near drove me nutz. my main reason for coming here was cuz i was thinking about building a 257ai, cuz performance matches that of a 25-06 and i was hoping to be to stuff it in a short action. 70-85gr. bullets should blow up better than outta a .243. long story short from your original postings i jst find it really hard to beleive that you can go from shooting a 115 bullet at 3400fps to then adding an extra .5gr. and shoot one 15grs lighter and your able to get another 400fps.  jst from my experience usually when you get into the higher pressures, velocity gains level off no matter on how much more powder you add. the only thing you gain is a loss in accuracy. can it be done? maybe and you probably did do it, but that is something that is not going to be acheived in every rifle.

since savages are cheap alot of younger guys are on hear looking around and may jst try out what you are saying for themselfs and i'd hate for someone to get their face blown off. somewhere around 55grs is a great starting load for a straight 25-06. you can proly get around 3200-3400fps and that is plenty fast, it's actually overkill. despite all the bull thats been said, there is still some pretty good info here and not to mention pretty entertaining. i never liked reading much, but can read this stuff all day. i've laughed more than been hot headed while typing this and from the very get go i stated i did not want to turn this into a pissing match so don't blame me if you think i high jacked this thread. good luck to all of you and god bless.

[j_22250]

  Funkydiscobeaver; is that you?

  LMAO... Ive killed more deer in two years doing crop damage controle work than youve killed your whole life.
  You wouldnt kill anything lager than deer with your 270? Why? is it inferior? I kill buffalo with my 2506 and the lights go right out.

 Tell you what, you go start a thread about your 270 and I'll be an @$$ ( like yourself) and come over and rain on your parade. Your talking about standard cartridges in a wildcat reloading section.

hahaha, i'm guessing funkydiscobeaver is a troll. i would be more than happy to entertain your opinions about the 270 either straight or wsm in a new thread, but i am not going to, this crap is stupid and makes me sick too. you read my post wrong, yes i would shoot at stuff bigger than deer. all the way up to caribou and maybe even a moose even. 2,000 ft. lbs. of energy out to 400yrds. your bet. btw, the ballistic calc. i usually use is JBM. if you have a better one please let me know.

hey, nitrous i would also like to take a look at those pics of the coyote you shot with 85grainers. shoot me a pm and i'll give you my email so you can send them to me and thanks for not lashing out at me. even though we have different opinions i can tell we're still both on the right track.

[Apache]

Dang, go away for a bit and look what happens........

OutLaw......you're still a lightening rod!   


Let's see....Outlaw's been around for a number of years....and has at least 2951 posts......and has an excellent reputation........done lots of work on other folks rifles, all with excellent results........REAL WORLD STUFF.

j_22250 has just started and has 16 posts.....admittedly no real experience with a 25-06......I think I KNOW whom to believe......and who is a jackass.

[j_22250]

the number of posts i have has no relevance to my experience and knowledge. if anything all that means is i spend more time outdoors than behind the computer. apache, i encorage you to go back and re-read things before calling me a jackass. i'm pretty sure that i made my intentions and apoligies clear in my first and last  couple of posts.

outlaw, yes i am talking about a 270 in wildcat thread, but please read back on how it kept going. all i was trying to say is i dont need to spend more $$$ on guns, cuz i already have some good ones. and as i've said they are all good. i proly won't ever get those 90's for you, but i will post some info for you to jst do a little comparison.

[trappst]

Not to stir the pot but here are a few facts:

270 WSM will not reach the speeds you'd like with 90 and 100g bullets.  At least not with a 24" barrel.  How do I know?  Been there, done that.  The 270 WSM shines with the bullets it was intended for, 130 and 140g. 

130g bullet running 3,400fps is nothing to laugh at.....and I think we both know the standard 270 Win. won't even touch those numbers.  Both are great rounds though.

That's all I got.....I gots to be good since I just recently got into the quarter bore club!   

[j_22250]

yes, and the 25-06 will proly never shine with 130-140's. i may have to join the .25 bore club myself. if you built a 270wsm to shoot those 90 grainers than it could be done and i've seen other peoples loads showing up to 3,700fps. sierra spends a ton of $$$ to develop and research loads for us to use. way more than me anyways. lol. in their most current manual they use a savage action with a 26" barrel to test the 25-06ai. for the 100 & 115gr. bullets they are showing 57.1 and 54.5 grains of re-22 being a max load.

to be fair i'm going to compare a 90gr. hp bullet from both the 25-06ai and 270wsm, simply because they offer one for both cals. i want to be as fair as possible while doing this. i aso want to note that the .25-06ai has the advantage cuz it has a boat tail and the the one for .277cal does not. the 25-06ai used in sierras test also has a barrel that is 2" longer. i'm also going to be using h4831 SC as an example here, again because they show it for both cartridges and it has a simular burn rate to re-22. the book shows 61.5grs. of 4831 being the max for 25-06ai and a velocity of 3,600fps, again this is with 90gr. bullets. for the 270 wsm they show 73.5 being a max load and a velocity of 3,650fps. so they are both pretty dang close. now then, since it has been said that the damage is unlike anything else with a 25-06. then i jst want to point out that the potential for doing even more damage is greater with a bigger cal. given same weight bullits and velocities. in my rifle i'm using a max load from the sierra manual, even tho i'm shooting nosler's. with a charge of 65grs of h-4831sc i am seeing slight pressure signs. so i don't encourage anyone to ever load more than the book shows. since you have a 30" barrel it seems as though 3850fps is doable jst not practical.