300 BLK

[dacaur]

Well, in order to say 50 cal is the way to go, you have to leave weight, cost, and recoil out of the equation completly. $10 a round is a little rich for my blood. Those of course are very important parts.

I'm not saying the 300 BLK isnt a good candidate for a bolt gun only because its not powerful. I am really looking forward to adding a .17 hornet and .204 ruger to my collection at some point. The upside on those is high velocity and low recoil for varmints. I shoot .308 for deer, not the most powerful cartridge out there, but it is one of the more efficient in terms of velocity and energy vs recoil, plus its low cost and "everywhere" availability.... Same reason I have several 9mm pistols and a 9mm carbine.
No 300 blk has many downsides, the worst of which is sad ballistics. Compared to other .30 cal cartridges. I guess 30 carbine is worse, but thats about it, other than that, its at the very bottom of the heap.

I guess in the end, you gotta shoot what you like. I know people that think 9mm is a stupid caliber, "go with 40 S&W" they say... (no thanks on that one too)
If you are willing to live with the downsides to the 300blk, by all means, go for... I was just looking for some insight on the "why" of it.... which I have yet to get, btw...

I'm just saying that balisticaly, its not on par with most .30 cal cartridges....


As for 30 rem AR, yes you can use unmodified mags, they just go in single stack, and I know for sure DPMS makes a 30 rem AR upper.

[ellobo]

There is an old saying; "The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other cartridge, and none has wounded more." No cartridge is worth a damn without proper bullet placement. I know far too many hunters that cant hit a paperplate consistantly at fifty yards offhand with a 30-30, a favorite rifle here in the northeast.
El Lobo

[Aircraftmech76]

No 300 blk has many downsides, the worst of which is sad ballistics. Compared to other .30 cal cartridges. I guess 30 carbine is worse, but thats about it, other than that, its at the very bottom of the heap. So how do you feel about the 7.62x39? That's basically what you're getting in the 300BLK, but with out the crap ammo, crap magazines that have proven to be troublesome, and aside from a barrel change, no other parts needed when going from .223 or 5.56. A side bonus of the chambering is that there is available heavy-hitting subsonic ammo for it. You also have the option of match grade barrels for your semi-auto; something the AK is lacking. You can also make your own cases from .223, of which there are literally BILLIONS of out there. Also, unlike the steel cases of the x39, you can reload the cases on the BLK.

If you are willing to live with the downsides to the 300blk, by all means, go for... I was just looking for some insight on the "why" of it.... which I have yet to get, btw... See above.

I'm just saying that balisticaly, its not on par with most .30 cal cartridges....Agreed, but then again, how many semi-auto 30's out there can cycle both subs and supers in the same chambering? It has its place, it's just at the bottom end/middle of the velocity spectrum.

[handirifle]

You know I was reading this thread, wondering what the heck you would use one for, and all of a sudden i see a cool conversion, for a mini 14. :) I always thought it would be nice to have more oomph in the mini, and they won't convert a 223 to a 6.8 SPC ot 7.62x39, claim the receivers are different, might be I dunno, but the 300BLK, now that is a real doable swap. Just have to swap out a barrel, or bore and rechamber one and voila! Semi auto, heavy duty protector, OR close range deer gun.

Sorry deacur, it seems like a decent setup up to me. the mini isn't a bolt gun, but the means of delivery doesn't mean a single thing to me.

[Aircraftmech76]

I foresee Ruger doing this in the very near future. Hopefully they don't screw the pooch by putting a 10" twist on the darn thing...

Kevin

[handirifle]

I foresee Ruger doing this in the very near future. Hopefully they don't screw the pooch by putting a 10" twist on the darn thing...

Kevin


Yea maybe, but I don't have the maens to buy another rifle, and Ruger will not rebarrel the mini to anything other than how it left the factory, I know cause I checked before. Accuracy systems shows the 300 Whisper (same thing?) on their web site, but at over $700 for a conversion, it is not doable for me.

The only way I can go, is to buy a 223 barrel, for say, a Savage, have a smith recut the threads on the barrel to fit the mini, and then it would have to be bored to the .308. Still not cheap. :-[ Or I could have them cut and bore my Mini Target barrel. Soo many choices and so much dinero.

[helotaxi]

you have to leave weight, cost, and recoil out of the equation completly.You'd have to do the same thing when totally discounting the 300BLK as a youth rifle.


No 300 blk has many downsides, the worst of which is sad ballistics. Compared to other .30 cal cartridges. I guess 30 carbine is worse, but thats about it, other than that, its at the very bottom of the heap.It is ballistically on par with two of the most common .30 cal cartridges: the .30-30 and the 7.62x39. It's an intermediate cartridge that is more than adequate to hunt with within its range limitations. Subsonic loads have been used extensively and successfully with a suppressor for hog control at 200+ yds.


I'm just saying that balisticaly, its not on par with most .30 cal cartridges.... So? The .308 isn't either. Other than the 7.62x39 and the .30-30 the .308 is less powerful than all the others. That doesn't keep it from being more than adequate. Same with the .300BLK. It doesn't have to be the most powerful or even *very* powerful to be more than adequate within certain range limitations. The .22 Hornet is probably the least powerful centerfire .22 cal cartridge but that doesn't mean that it isn't suitable for bolt action use. If you look at the bulk of the market for the 300 Whisper, you'd see that it is very prevalent in the Contender and Encore pistols and in Encore rifles, possibly even more so than the AR15. It isn't because the Contender and Encore are limited in the cartridges that they can be chambered in.

[dacaur]

It is ballistically on par with two of the most common .30 cal cartridges: the .30-30 and the 7.62x39. It's an intermediate cartridge that is more than adequate to hunt with within its range limitations. Subsonic loads have been used extensively and successfully with a suppressor for hog control at 200+ yds.

Right, the 30-30, a lever gun cartridge, and the 7.62 a semi auto round, both typically used with open sights, so the range limitation isnt a big deal. There is no doubt The 300 blk wold be great in a semi auto ar-15, or even a single shot pistol.
I'm not failing to understand the appeal of the cartridge. You dont have to sell me on it, I would love to have an AR-15 chambered in it.
I'm failing to understand the appeal of the cartridge in a bolt action. The bolt action is the unquestionable king of long range shooting, so to handicap one with a 200 yard cartridge just seems silly to me.


So? The .308 isn't either. Other than the 7.62x39 and the .30-30 the .308 is less powerful than all the others.
There are quite a few more actualy, but the point is moot, the .308 has the advantage of cheap ammo availability anywhere..... Plus, its a more than decent hunting cartridge out to 500+ yards .....

I guess I just find it weird, I try to pick calibers that have something big going for them in one way or another either ballistically or price/availability... .223, .308, and 9mm are nato rounds, so there is cheap ammo, everywhere. They arent the "best" in their class, but they are decent for their caliber.

I just fail to see what a 300blk in a bolt action has "going for it".....

[hugegator]

To maybe help you understand what the 300 BLK does, I'll explain why I want a bolt gun in it. I have 2 AR's in this cal. and love them, very fun and fill that niche for those of us who never really felt at ease with .22 holes and don't need the additional weight and range a .308 brings to the table. I live where finding a 200 yard range is tough and even if I hunted, most shots are less than 150 yards due to vegetation.

But why another one in a bolt action? Because I CAN shoot very quietly and use inexpensive, lighter bullets all day long with chopped down brass for cheap when I get bored shooting my AR's. It's a better tool for load development as well.

It's not a general one gun for the masses sort of thing, but there is a market for it as silencer ownership grows.

[handirifle]

But why another one in a bolt action? Because I CAN shoot very quietly and use inexpensive, lighter bullets all day long with chopped down brass for cheap when I get bored shooting my AR's. It's a better tool for load development as well.



To me, after this, there is no need for further explanation necessary, other than possibly, to add, "and because I want to". As a youth bolt gun it makes PERFECT sense. Most learners have no business hunting with a semi auto, and most are barely capable of 100yd shots much less 200 or farther, (ever get buck fever?) and it would have very light recoil, thus equating into a kid not afraid of recoil and really enjoying practice, and from looking at the pic of those 110gr TSX's performance is not an issue.

As I mentioned earlier, I started reading this thread, thinking "why would you want this round?" well now I want one in my mini 14.

[dacaur]

To maybe help you understand what the 300 BLK does, I'll explain why I want a bolt gun in it. I have 2 AR's in this cal. and love them, very fun and fill that niche for those of us who never really felt at ease with .22 holes and don't need the additional weight and range a .308 brings to the table. I live where finding a 200 yard range is tough and even if I hunted, most shots are less than 150 yards due to vegetation.

But why another one in a bolt action? Because I CAN shoot very quietly and use inexpensive, lighter bullets all day long with chopped down brass for cheap when I get bored shooting my AR's. It's a better tool for load development as well.

It's not a general one gun for the masses sort of thing, but there is a market for it as silencer ownership grows.



Ah, finally an explanation from someone. Rather than touting a "great" it is in a bolt gun, you give a reason why you would settle for it in one ;D. That makes perfect sense. I am a big proponent of having multiple guns in the same caliber. In your case, I can understand it. Thank you.

[hugegator]

You're welcome. I think a lot of 300 owners either have multiple guns in 300 and/or run a silencer. It's a nice, short range round that has some versatility in platforms and usage if one knows the limitations.

[Aircraftmech76]

Another option for subsonic use, if you have a 308, is 10 grains of Trailboss under a 178 grain AMAX. Amazingly quiet and works in a boltgun without problems or re-tooling if you have one already. That being said, I have a boltgun in 308, and a BLK in an AR, for reference.

Kevin

[SuperChuck]

Have assembled 2 300 Blk rifles so far.....


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Zzz9jD7-Teg/T587wIa7exI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/jOrAu9v-8gY/s800/2012-04-30_21-23-44_778.jpg


Took them to the range..... was able to mount a 4.5-14 x 42 Burris Fullfield II scope and get it sighted in close yesterday, and took it to a group shoot where I got to test out a Liberty Mystic on the scoped build.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uIfm-8LmLUI/T6Xf3G2CujI/AAAAAAAAA3o/z-Lxo60ndGA/s800/IMG_20120505_122747.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8Ofkoy6Pnl4/T6Xf3byT_GI/AAAAAAAAA3w/dGN39cS2jEA/s800/IMG_20120505_122809.jpg


Just had fun slinging the lead downrange, wasn't shooting for accuracy, but was getting good repeatability on the 100 yard berm targets.

I had worked on the extraction/ejection issue, and it appeared to improve as the gun/bolt modifications began to break in... Hopefully not much more and it'll be extracting and ejecting as reliably as before...

The quietness of the Subsonic AND supersonic rounds impressed quite a few of the participants. I'm definitely sold on this combination, looking forward to assembling my full rig..

SC