Primers, How flat is too flat?

[eddiesindian]

to my eyes....the primer doesnt show the firing pin indentation to be blown out at all..or at least not enuff to red flag the load charge.
chrono,s gonna tell the story.

[therichardpowell]

Got some Accurate 4064 last month. Have never used it before but the from the load data it looks to be just a wee bit faster than the IMR but that could just be from lot variations. Reloader 15 is also one you might give a go. Anyway hope you get it shooting like you want.

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

From looking at this, AA2520 comes in slower than 4064 powders. But Reloader 15 is a few steps slower, again, I would love to find some... I have 3 pounds of H1000 that I bought for my friends but 3 months later none of them have bought dies or brass or bullets so I am gonna try to trade some locally for some Varget or Reloader 15.

[eddiesindian]

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

From looking at this, AA2520 comes in slower than 4064 powders. But Reloader 15 is a few steps slower, again, I would love to find some... I have 3 pounds of H1000 that I bought for my friends but 3 months later none of them have bought dies or brass or bullets so I am gonna try to trade some locally for some Varget or Reloader 15.

sounds like a good trade to me.....Varget and RL-15 have been my go to powders for yrs. Ive been able to find Varget here locally but no RL-15. Lucky for me I ordered a 5lb-er right before the crisis. I still have about 3 lbs left.

[therichardpowell]

sounds like a good trade to me.....Varget and RL-15 have been my go to powders for yrs. Ive been able to find Varget here locally but no RL-15. Lucky for me I ordered a 5lb-er right before the crisis. I still have about 3 lbs left.

I think so too. H1000 seems to be just as hard to find as Varget. I just got lucky one day. But I don't own a magnum and none of my friends wanna get of their arse to get their act together so if I can trade it I will. They can go hunt up their own powder. I can't wait to get a load figured out so I can start playing. I am not terribly patient and this process is proving difficult for me. I just wanna go take a poke at the 1000 yard target on the hill. But it'll have to wait til I find a good load and get some drop data formulated.

[eddiesindian]

I think so too. H1000 seems to be just as hard to find as Varget. I just got lucky one day. But I don't own a magnum and none of my friends wanna get of their arse to get their act together so if I can trade it I will. They can go hunt up their own powder. I can't wait to get a load figured out so I can start playing. I am not terribly patient and this process is proving difficult for me. I just wanna go take a poke at the 1000 yard target on the hill. But it'll have to wait til I find a good load and get some drop data formulated.

yep....just have to wait.
getting accurate/consistant results from you doing your homwork on load development is the major roll player for wanting to play for distance.
I presume that because its a soft point....your looking for a long distance hunting load?

[therichardpowell]

yep....just have to wait.
getting accurate/consistant results from you doing your homwork on load development is the major roll player for wanting to play for distance.
I presume that because its a soft point....your looking for a long distance hunting load?

Yeah I am striving for MOA accuracy. If my barrel wont do it, I will swap it out and probably go with a 6.5 or 7mm. We shall see.

Here's where I am so far.
http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?27166-I-joined-the-brotherhood

I am on a budget, hence all of the "make it work" in my rifle build and ammo. I like the Gameking bullet. Cheap, and I have heard they give good results. I may try Bergers later, when budget allows and I have a solid load built to use while playing with the Bergers. Just trying to get something together for this year and practice with it before deer and elk season hit. Bear season starts this week... I am nowhere near ready. But, I don't really like hunting when it is 100 degrees out anyway, so it can wait. I ordered 3 AR500 gongs today. 8", 10" and 12". Just need to dial these loads in so I can start collecting dope.

[eddiesindian]

what did you pay for the ar500 steel?

[therichardpowell]

what did you pay for the ar500 steel?

90 bucks on ebay, with free shipping... Please dont tell me I got ripped off... Lol.

[eddiesindian]

thats about the going price. I 2 was looking at them on e-bay as well, but came across some free scrap 1/2 thick plates that I was able to make some swinging targets out of.
I work at a Ford dealership and its (at times) pretty easy for me to come acroos some scrap metal to makes my gongs/swingers. Ill use everything from axles/u bolts/shift shafts/leaf springs/steering box pitman arms to make my targets.
Lately, Ive been making stands out of leaf springs, welding scrap 1/2 thick 8X8 plates to the leaf springs, burrying the stands in cement out in a valley where we shoot from 100 out to 1K...no more setting up targets,,,just show up,,,and start smacking the steels

[therichardpowell]

Ya. I am gonna have my exhaust guy bend up some frames out of exhaust pipe. It's cheap and if it gets all shot to hell I can just pitch it and get another one.

I too work in automotive. I manage an independent shop. It's fun rummaging. We took apart a Subaru tranny and I cut the input shaft down and spiked the end and it has a gear at the end. The "Zombie Knocker". My truck club.

I wish I had a place where I could set up and leave my stuff. Too many dik heads around here would steal it. But the gongs hanging on exhaust pipe frames should be portable enough. And with all the logging around here you can drive just about anywhere and drop one off and drive to a good spot to shoot from.

[eddiesindian]

Ya. I am gonna have my exhaust guy bend up some frames out of exhaust pipe. It's cheap and if it gets all shot to hell I can just pitch it and get another one.

I too work in automotive. I manage an independent shop. It's fun rummaging. We took apart a Subaru tranny and I cut the input shaft down and spiked the end and it has a gear at the end. The "Zombie Knocker". My truck club.

I wish I had a place where I could set up and leave my stuff. Too many dik heads around here would steal it. But the gongs hanging on exhaust pipe frames should be portable enough. And with all the logging around here you can drive just about anywhere and drop one off and drive to a good spot to shoot from.

yep...I hear you......It amaze,s me to no end how the brain of some shooters work. You cant leave anything out there becuase they wanna take/steal it. If they,d stop and think about it for just a bit...they,d realize that if they leave it put, they too can enjoy the use of it as well as others and not have to spend time setting up for a days worth of shooting

[emtrescue6]

I have always had good luck with IMR-4895 in 308 if you can find some. I run a pretty hot load of it and my primers don't look any worse for the wear than yours do...if you are not experiencing hard bolt lifts or other signs (cracked necks or separated heads) I wouldn't be to overly worried with it yet. But I would cease using magnum primers in a 308...

[floydboy]

If your primer pockets expand after only a few reloads you know you are on the hot side. I have started having loose pockets after only 2-3 reloads of flattened primers. Too hot for me. Probably isn't a definitive test for a hot load but is a sure sign for me.

[MacDR]

My thoughts are headspacing. The firing pin drives the case forward and then the primer unseats slightly when the round fires, the case stretches back and the slightly pround primer is slammed into the bolt face causing it to flatten. I don't see any cratering around the pin strike. Try the same loads with neck sized brass from your rifle. They have been fire sized to your chamber.

BTW, all the loads in the Lee book are, from what I can see, from other sources such as Hodgdon and Lapua.

[tammons]

I have seen factory ammo with primers so flat you would bet it was over pressured. Way worse than any of your photos.

I watch primer flatness more for just to judge how the pressure is moving up but dont put too much weight on just that.

Also Cratering, but mostly I watch brass flow. When I see the round circle on the brass from the ejector hole, or a swipe on a semi auto, I call that slightly over pressured and back off.

Also case head expansion but you will get brass flow signs way before significant case head expansion.