Barrel overheating?

[aka:Cliff]

Sure, thanks.
Its 3:30 here in AZ right now.
I'm off at 5

[LoneWolf]

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a510/PJ0527/IMAG0373_zps3170db53.jpg[/IMG]

.33-.34 is what I came up with on Lake City brass

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2

[earl39]

With 100% certanty, I can say that when it locks up/ sticks, the bolt handle will rotate but not move AT ALL rearward.
Zero movement.

The bolt handle will rotate up, but not to the rear. I even tried a dead blow hammer (2 LBS) on it. (yes, the bolt handle)
Letting it cool, adding Oil down the barrel and tapping the case out with and old arrow shaft and the dead blow hammer.
(very lightly tapping it) worked 2x ago, last time I just let it cool.
________________________________

I spoke with Savage and they said get the serial # and make arrangments to send it back in to them.

/ not happy about that, but I'd like it right.


That is typical primary extraction failure.

[aka:Cliff]

DELETED - Double Post

[aka:Cliff]

LOL, yes, stuck case = extraction failure.

My case measured .34 also. (not just on the fired case/ also on an unfired case/ .34)

I'm thinking it's a tube issue really, maybe right at the tightest tolerance.

[aka:Cliff]

http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/cgzellers/Target91513_zpsbf3f714f.jpg (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/cgzellers/media/Target91513_zpsbf3f714f.jpg.html)

[aka:Cliff]

100 yards off a Bipod. No gun vise.

WooHoo, got my photo bucket up.

No I can share some picks.

[bodywerks]

What brand of ammo/brass are you shooting? If your fired case neck measures the same diameter as the case neck of a loaded round something is amiss. I'd have to check my 308 brass again, but I know the neck expands a good 3-5 thou larger than the loaded round diameter.
To give you an idea, my 338 lapua loaded rounds measure .367 at the neck and fired rounds are .372.
If your necks aren't expanding at least a couple thousandths over loaded round diameter then I'd say you have a tight chamber issue or bad brass.
If its a simple primary extraction issue you can fix it yourself. If you wanna make a trip down to Tucson I'll help you sort it out.

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

[bodywerks]

http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/cgzellers/Target91513_zpsbf3f714f.jpg
Is that group with cheapo ball ammo? Cuz I've not ever seen a 308 savage shoot worse than moa with match ammo or handloads. But cheapo ammo tends to produce a shotgun pattern similar to what you posted...


PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

[aka:Cliff]

What brand of ammo/brass are you shooting? If your fired case neck measures the same diameter as the case neck of a loaded round something is amiss. I'd have to check my 308 brass again, but I know the neck expands a good 3-5 thou larger than the loaded round diameter.
To give you an idea, my 338 lapua loaded rounds measure .367 at the neck and fired rounds are .372.
If your necks aren't expanding at least a couple thousandths over loaded round diameter then I'd say you have a tight chamber issue or bad brass.
If its a simple primary extraction issue you can fix it yourself. If you wanna make a trip down to Tucson I'll help you sort it out.

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg


I completely understand that.
and that makes sense. when the barrel heats up, and the case is fired, 1) the case tries to enlarge (normally) and 2) the barrel heating up makes the chamber shrink, thus sticking the casing until it cools off. - duh factor. lol.

The brass is a mix of LC, & Winchester. Both have stuck on me.
this last time was Winchester, hand selected by me for zero case blemishes.


I love the stock on your rig.

[pitsnipe]

Cliff,


Have you tried the feeler gauge (like the u-tube vid) when you had a stuck case? To at least eliminate the primary extraction when there is some resistance (warm/hot chamber) that your existing extraction cannot overcome? If you mentioned you had I apologize for askin and beatin the dead horse.

[aka:Cliff]

Cliff,


Have you tried the feeler gauge (like the u-tube vid) when you had a stuck case? To at least eliminate the primary extraction when there is some resistance (warm/hot chamber) that your existing extraction cannot overcome? If you mentioned you had I apologize for askin and beatin the dead horse.

No, I have not.
I have been at the range and it has unexpectantly "siezed" on me.
I did mention that when it happens, the bolt handle will rotate but not pull back.
I have taken a 2 LB dead blow hammer and tapped the handle, but it would not release.
The first couple of times, I took the gun home and oiled it well, down the barrel, let it sit,
and tapped it out with an old arrow shaft after it cooled.

[pitsnipe]

Cliff,

Yes, the bolt will lift up but it wont cam the brass out of the chamber enough to finish the extraction. That is where the feeler gauge comes in. To give you the leverage you don't have (normal/adequate primary extraction) to open (slide back, not lift up) the bolt without a dead blow hammer or letting it cool. Yes, it sounds like your chamber is "snug" that isn't necessarily a bad thing. IF you have enough leverage/primary extraction to over come it. My FLCP-k in .308 is snug. And after a 20 round string in less than 20 minutes without adequate primary extraction I wouldn't get close to taking out the 5th shot. let alone all 20 as smooth as the first. I'm just sayin, eliminate this as a possibility the next time you shoot it. Come prepared with some feeler gauges (less than $7.00 at your local auto supply) and see if that works. From there the fix is moderately easy.

[aka:Cliff]

Cliff,

Yes, the bolt will lift up but it wont cam the brass out of the chamber enough to finish the extraction. That is where the feeler gauge comes in. To give you the leverage you don't have (normal/adequate primary extraction) to open (slide back, not lift up) the bolt without a dead blow hammer or letting it cool. Yes, it sounds like your chamber is "snug" that isn't necessarily a bad thing. IF you have enough leverage/primary extraction to over come it. My FLCP-k in .308 is snug. And after a 20 round string in less than 20 minutes without adequate primary extraction I wouldn't get close to taking out the 5th shot. let alone all 20 as smooth as the first. I'm just sayin, eliminate this as a possibility the next time you shoot it. Come prepared with some feeler gauges (less than $7.00 at your local auto supply) and see if that works. From there the fix is moderately easy.

10-4.
Last time out I even forgot my spotting scope. =( and I do have a range bag. LOL
I have feeler gauges I can take. (several sets)

Thank you for the help and passing some knowledge down. I'm still learning at 50 !

[big norm]

I completely understand that.
and that makes sense. when the barrel heats up, and the case is fired, 1) the case tries to enlarge (normally) and 2) the barrel heating up makes the chamber shrink, thus sticking the casing until it cools off. - duh factor. lol.

The brass is a mix of LC, & Winchester. Both have stuck on me.
this last time was Winchester, hand selected by me for zero case blemishes.


I love the stock on your rig.

Steel DOES NOT SHRINK when heated it shrinks when it cools.

The reloads you are using are they full length sized or neck sized.. I asked because I have a savage 116 in 270 and 7mm, my full length sized brass extracts easily upon firing but when I neck size my brass and shoot it it is much harder to remove. If you are getting case damage then you may want to look at a possible ruff chamber.. that was the culprit in my case... a light polishing solved the problem!

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[LoneWolf]

Steel DOES NOT SHRINK when heated it shrinks when it cools.


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

Correct except when it expands in this case the barrel narrows slightly. Thats why unless a high quality barrel, barrels shoot better when they are warmed up vise the infamous "cold bore" shot.

Of course the barrel can get to hot and throw off accuracy as well.

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[aka:Cliff]

Hahahaha, I see the confusion gentlemen.

I said "Chamber" shrinks. / when the steel expands, the chamber shrinks.


and 2) the barrel heating up makes the chamber shrink,

You are both correct. ;)

[big norm]

Aaahhhhh! That's what I get for reading fast and thinking slow

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[bodywerks]

I completely understand that.
and that makes sense. when the barrel heats up, and the case is fired, 1) the case tries to enlarge (normally) and 2) the barrel heating up makes the chamber shrink, thus sticking the casing until it cools off. - duh factor. lol.

The brass is a mix of LC, & Winchester. Both have stuck on me.
this last time was Winchester, hand selected by me for zero case blemishes.


I love the stock on your rig.

That's not what I said, at all. You'll have to reread my post a little slower, cuz my post has nothing to do with heat.
And A barrel that heats up doesn't shrink a chamber, it expands it. It doesnt even shorten the chamber, it lengthens it - its a moot point to argue though because your barrel is not heating up enough to cause even the slightest problem, although the heat may be revealing the true problem.
You have a primary extraction issue or an improperly reamed chamber or a headspace issue. Firing slower or less rounds is not the solution. A properly set up rifle should be able to fire dozens of rounds per minute without issue.
if you are firing reloads then your loads are too hot. And if they're reloads then you definitely have problems, because no reload should shoot a group as big as you posted.

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg

[bodywerks]

Back to what I was talking about with neck expansion. You said your fired case necks measure the same as a loaded case neck? You need to measure again, because there should be at least a .005 difference. I just measured my 308 stuff. Loaded neck measures .3375, fired neck is .3440. Yours should be similar.

PCR/XLR/TAC338 http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111453_255_zps1b498f0d.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/IMG_20130816_111325_951_zps290ebdd0.jpg