Advice needed to start my reloading addictin

[pinsnscrews]

I got the Lee Deluxe Reloading kit and the Deluxe Die kit in .308, last night, so this thread is perfect timing.
I have a bunch of 7.62 brass to clean and prep. Is there a recommended way to remove the crimp on the 7.62 primers?

I am looking at 2 loads for right now.

A 200gr Cast load for handgun silouhette.
A 160gr Barnes Tipped TSX bullet for hunting (deer/elk)

I am still open on powders, but, I noticed the pocket Lyman Guide came with notes referencing what was most accurate in their test rig, so I see it as a good starting point.

Savage Axis for hunting and a custom barreled break action in .308 for IHMSA

[stangfish]

Some things I think are useful. I noticed trimmers were mentioned, some with a chamfering tool. Must be nice. you mentioned match grade ammo. Attention to case prep is critical.

Case trimmer
Case prep tools. The Lyman VLD is good stuff. Both inside and outside chamfer tools. They sell a kit with lots of good stuff in it. Like...
Flash hole deburr tool.
Carbide Primer uniformer. (not cleaner but a true cutter)
Case headspace measuring tool. Hornady is a good set if you have a...
Dial caliper (Analog does not need batteries. Must read .xxx)
Stoney Point (Hornady) gauge with corresponding case gauge.

[davemuzz]

I got the Lee Deluxe Reloading kit and the Deluxe Die kit in .308, last night, so this thread is perfect timing.
I have a bunch of 7.62 brass to clean and prep. Is there a recommended way to remove the crimp on the 7.62 primers?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUxXYwqtlM This video will show you what the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager will do to the 7.62 NATO crimped primer pocket.

Also, remember that the 7.62 NATO case is not the same as the commercial 308 brass. The military brass is thicker and the case capacity is smaller than the .308. So, if your loading at near maximum loads, approach these with caution and watch for pressure signs. Start your loads at least 5% under the maximum.

Dave

[fla9-40]

I use the Lee universal de-capping die and de-cap all my brass before I put it in my Lizard bedding material(Walnut) I get from pet stores. Have never had it leave a red tint to the brass....comes out real shinny! Throw in a used drier sheet and it will help with the dust.

If any media is in the flash holes it is removed when I size the brass

For .308 I have the Lee dies w/Factory Crimp Die and Redding competition seating die . My go to powder for .308 is Varget and my gun loves Sierra 168gr HPBT Match, but I only shoot out to 450yrds

Trimmers I use the CTS Trimmer. You do have to chamfer and deburr in a separate step, but no biggie with the RCBS prep center.

Good luck, have fun and do not take short cuts!!

[JCalhoun]

I started with the Lee Anniversary kit and still use the press and priming tool. I like the Lee cutter & lock stud/case trimmer. I found Lee powder thrower thrower and scale to be a little bit lacking as I became more experienced and replaced them with the Redding BR powder thrower, scale, and trickler kit. I replaced the Lee chamfer/deburring tool with the RCBS one for VLD bullets. I have a lot of Lee dies as well as RCBS and Forster.

[Bowers]

Your FMJ bullets are fine for punching holes in paper. Not a good choice for hunting. Remember that just about every bullet maker's bullet of the same grain weight will impact at a different place (different POI) even if you use the same powder charge. So, working up a load using your FMJ bullets may not be "the load" for your rifle if you then choose to buy say…..Hornady SST bullets.

Hornady dies are fine dies. That's all I've used to load my .308. OTOH, for one-hole groups at 200 yards for my 6.5x55 I use a Redding neck sizer competition die, and an RCBS cop. seater die.

BTW, I like corn cob media much better than walnut because walnut always leaves RED residue all over the cases.

FWIW

Dave



Got to looking at my FMJ they are 150gr but doesnt have a name brand. Also i cant find a powder weight to use on it. what would be a good recomidation for a beggining powder weight? im useing varget. would it it be close for most fmj's manufactures loads.

my lyman book didnt have a load data for 150 fmj.

[missed]

Go to Hodgdon website they show 42.3-47 grains for the 150 grain bullets.

[Bowers]

Go to Hodgdon website they show 42.3-47 grains for the 150 grain bullets.

Thanks, i had looked at it and found two bullet types 1 being 150 gr NOS BT and the other type being 150 gr NOS E-TIP. Whats the difference in BT and E-TIP? I beleive i know, i just dont want to make a critical mistake.

I beleive the E-TIP Hogdon/Varget 42.3 gr min and 46.5C max is what you said to look at right.

[pinsnscrews]

Also, remember that the 7.62 NATO case is not the same as the commercial 308 brass. The military brass is thicker and the case capacity is smaller than the .308. So, if your loading at near maximum loads, approach these with caution and watch for pressure signs. Start your loads at least 5% under the maximum.

Dave

Thanks Dave
My plan is to start out at minimum listed and go up to the middle of the road. Sort of splitting the difference between min and max.
Are you suggesting going 5% below minimum and start there as well?

[BillPa]

Thanks, i had looked at it and found two bullet types 1 being 150 gr NOS BT and the other type being 150 gr NOS E-TIP. Whats the difference in BT and E-TIP?

The E-tip doesn't have a lead core.

Here is Nosler's data for those bullets in 308 > http://www.nosler.com/308-winchester

[Bowers]

The E-tip doesn't have a lead core.

Here is Nosler's data for those bullets in 308 > http://www.nosler.com/308-winchester

There data almost the same at the minimum and identical at the max. So that being said. 42.3gr to 42.5gr min and 46.5 gr max is what i should do. I probably wont do max until skill has developed.

Thank you

[davemuzz]

Thanks Dave
My plan is to start out at minimum listed and go up to the middle of the road. Sort of splitting the difference between min and max.
Are you suggesting going 5% below minimum and start there as well?


If your going to "start at the cellar" then there would be no need to go any lower even when using military brass. Just look for pressure signs as you increase your loads….as you would with commercial brass….but be aware that those pressure signs could (yes that's a could) come before they would if you were using commercial brass.

Dave

[pinsnscrews]

Again thanks Dave.

[Bowers]

Got another guestion. I was researching what the meaning "off the lands" means. I pretty certain that its the distance from where the bullet comes from touching the very beginning of the rifleing on the barrel, right? And that could help or hurt accuracy or become dangerous if the bullet actually touches the land when attempting to fire it, by having to much pressure in chamber. And that u shouldnt be more than .020 away either. So it would seem that if a person changed the lands that would change the over all length. I thought over al length was critical. or is that what i should be more concetrating on .

[thermaler]

I'm a relative newbie at reloading but I'll take a stab at some of your questions. lands is where the bullet engages the beginning of rifling twist in your bore. Some shooters--like certain match calibers--will actually develop their loads so that the bullets are engaged into the lands upon chambering. But these are not your "everyday rifles" and generally most hand-loaders will seat their bullets with a bit of space or "jump" off the lands (though some do load right into the lands). The relationship is not entirely absolute--in other words while most bullet/powder combos can be improved upon (one of the main benefits of hand loading) by adjusting your bullet seating (usually by measuring distance to the bullet's ogive as opposed to the "conventional" overall cartridge length) so that they are closer to the lands--there are some bullets and chambers which "prefer" a generous jump.

Over-all cartridge length is simply a standard to provide a high degree of conformity of manufacturer's ammo to manufacturer's rifles. As hand-loaders we "push those boundaries" a bit in search of accuracy that out-performs the manufacturer's standards. Factors such as your magazine's length capacity and dimensions of your rifle's chamber will determine how far you can push those boundaries--along with the safety limitations of the powder loads within the case. General rules of thumb are develop your loads cautiously working your way up toward max loads--and be sure to examine your cases carefully and know the signs of incipient overpressure or other problems. A gun blowing up on you can ruin your day.

[fla9-40]

Got another guestion. I was researching what the meaning "off the lands" means. I pretty certain that its the distance from where the bullet comes from touching the very beginning of the rifleing on the barrel, right? And that could help or hurt accuracy or become dangerous if the bullet actually touches the land when attempting to fire it, by having to much pressure in chamber. And that u shouldnt be more than .020 away either. So it would seem that if a person changed the lands that would change the over all length. I thought over al length was critical. or is that what i should be more concetrating on .

You are correct on what "off the lands" means. Someone once gave an explanation of if you seat the bullet on the lands as this:
Start a nail in a piece of wood. Now place the hammer on top of the nail(bullet touching lands) now push the nail into the board....If it were possible it would take more pressure to do so rather then "Swinging" (bullet jump) the hammer to drive the nail.

On the part of "shouldn't be more than .020 away either" are you saying you should not be LESS or MORE then .020 off the lands?
I have some rounds for my .308 that love it .010 off the lands, while another is .050 off. ALL guns will be different, yours may not like what mine does. I have heard SOME loaders say that theirs love it touching the lands, but for me I would not be LESS then .010 off the lands.

Just my 2¢

Dang thermaler, you replied while I was slow typing!! =;)

[Bowers]

You are correct on what "off the lands" means. Someone once gave an explanation of if you seat the bullet on the lands as this:
Start a nail in a piece of wood. Now place the hammer on top of the nail(bullet touching lands) now push the nail into the board....If it were possible it would take more pressure to do so rather then "Swinging" (bullet jump) the hammer to drive the nail.

On the part of "shouldn't be more than .020 away either" are you saying you should not be LESS or MORE then .020 off the lands?
I have some rounds for my .308 that love it .010 off the lands, while another is .050 off. ALL guns will be different, yours may not like what mine does. I have heard SOME loaders say that theirs love it touching the lands, but for me I would not be LESS then .010 off the lands.

Just my 2¢

Dang thermaler, you replied while I was slow typing!! =;)


I had read not to go futher away than .020 from the lands, but with the internet you can get multiple responses. That being why i like to double and triple check everything. I did finally get the meaning of what the off the lands means, and what it does. I continued my research long into the early morning. I will probably wait awhile before i start experimenting with that part. I want to get my powder loads down path and etc first. I did find a great chart of how to adjust the lands relative to the powder charge.

Again thanks for all the help. Im a guy of a thousand questions.

[missed]

168SMK like 0.030 and 0.040 for the 175 in my guns. I know some guys that are jumping the 155 Palma 0.100"

[thermaler]

I had read not to go futher away than .020 from the lands, but with the internet you can get multiple responses. That being why i like to double and triple check everything. I did finally get the meaning of what the off the lands means, and what it does. I continued my research long into the early morning. I will probably wait awhile before i start experimenting with that part. I want to get my powder loads down path and etc first. I did find a great chart of how to adjust the lands relative to the powder charge.

Again thanks for all the help. Im a guy of a thousand questions.Despite the caveats--I would encourage you to experiment with your bullet seating depths and charges--otherwise all you can hope for is repeating factory ammo accuracy--which to most hand-loaders is unacceptable. : ) Get yourself an OAL gauge, modified case(s) and a comparator for your caliper micrometer and you are good to go. My experience with axis and 111 chambers/throats and magazines is that they are "generous" and provide room for experimentation; reasons I like Savages so much.

[yobuck]

i dont own any gauges i just use my calipers. i get my seating depth by closing the bolt on a dummy case with a partialy seated bullet.
use the calipers from there. on my lee dies i swap out the lock ring for one with a set screw. i dont deprime with my dies and i remove the
decapping pins. i use a small seperate press with a decapping die which fits all cases (almost). used presses are very reasonable on ebay.
i buy dies on there also. i hate case trimming and usually save that for somebody who wants to help. i hand prime one at a time as thats
how i cull out my cases unless a split shows up. (a really nice bull just walked past the camp within 100') if they go in loose i bang the head
on the bench. if the primer pops out it gets chucked if not its set aside for 1 more firing during practice at rocks. i dont compete so i dont
use any special dies. i do use o rings under my seaters and i rotate the case when i seat. i full legnth size everything. my bag is hunting and i want every one to go in and every one to come out.