Need Opinions- Once-Fired .223 LC / 7 Brass BAD Primers (?)

[Rifleshooter308]

I'm with Dave. It will take more time pulling the bullets on the few that won't fire than running the cases through a FL resize, deprime then repriming. My OCD just won't let me use anyone elses work. I had enough bad rounds when I started reloading which is what causes you to learn and get better. Why take a chance on someone elses mistakes, even Scharch?

[BillPa]

Why take a chance on someone elses mistakes, even Scharch?

I won't go as far as to far Schrach made a mistake. Like all manufactures they expect their stuff to work with the other manufacture's stuff 99% of the time be it ammo, chambers, reloading dies and etc. Its the 1% that doesn't work is what jumps up and bites ya in the.......

Most manufactures give you a little more or less depending so things will work together...hopefully! In Silver's case I guess maybe hes the lucky 1%. If the brass is short head clearance for his chamber then the only options are few, fix it, trash it or return it.

Bill

[Silvercrow1]

I'm with Dave. It will take more time pulling the bullets on the few that won't fire than running the cases through a FL resize, deprime then repriming. My OCD just won't let me use anyone elses work. I had enough bad rounds when I started reloading which is what causes you to learn and get better. Why take a chance on someone elses mistakes, even Scharch?

Thanks all- like was said- it's the problems that "learn ya" in life. I bought the brass from an individual-the bag was sealed and the bag of dissecant was broken open. I'm gonna de-prime, FL resize and re-prime. Not trying to lay the blame on anyone- Scharch or the seller. I'm confident neither knew of the problem. I'll be busy doing the work, but I love sitting at the bench; all good experience IMO. Theres something about carefully prepping, measuring, loading etc. that really flips my switch. AND as always- this forum is invaluable for info. and encouragement. Deep thanks! I can only hope when I get competent at doing this I can pass on info / help others out. Brian

[Silvercrow1]

Not at all. One of the basic methods making things into things they weren't made to be made into is creating a false shoulder by expanding the neck up to the next caliber then partially resizing it for a slight crush when chambering.

For example, using 222 Rem Mag brass to make 204 Ruger.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ag0xsg.jpg
A 222 RM case on the left with a false shoulder made by running it part way into a 204 FL die. On the right one fired in the 204 chamber. The false shoulder provides the correct head clearance, or the lack of it in this instance for firing and forming.

Some use a bullet jam to keep the casehead in contact with the breach face when fire forming brass. I don't, never have and never will.

Bill

Thanks Bill! This forum is a smorgasboard of information- I'm diggin' it! Brian

[thermaler]

My momma always told me: "buying recycled LC milsup brass is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're going get." ;)

[earl39]

After reading and rereading i belive i would take the brass that didn't fire and pull the bullet resize, reprime, reload and try it again. If it is a brass problem it should show up again at least on some of the brass. I would do this before i went thru all the trouble of repriming everything.

[BillPa]

i would take the brass that didn't fire and pull the bullet resize


I wouldn't FL resize it. If its short now it would still be short or even shorter depending how the die is setup and the chamber length. Its why I suggested a false shoulder with a slight crush chambering. A case can't move front or back, its jammed between the breach face and the false shoulder. It can only do one thing when fired, expand to the chamber dimensions.

Bill

[earl39]

What i was suggesting Bill was to find out if it was a brass or primer problem. If he creates a false shoulder he will have no way to know if the brass was short enough to cause the problem. Then if the brass is too short he could create a false shoulder on the other brass and be good to go.

[BillPa]

If he creates a false shoulder he will have no way to know if the brass was short enough to cause the problem.


Sure he would. Its the purpose of a false shoulder, to lengthen the brass and keep the cartridge firmly against the boltface and the false shoulder regardless of the chamber length dimension. If the problem is in fact short head clearance then a false shoulder would be an instant indicator of such. If not then at least one of the three possible problems has been put to rest.

Bill

[Silvercrow1]

OK Friends- we have to remember Brian is VERY new to reloading. Before today I thought a "false shoulder" were those old timey pads dudes used to have put in their suit jackets to make 'em hang right. Jam against the lands? Running a friggin' boat aground. BTW- although I know folks bump the bullet out till it touches the lands, I wont be doing that. Too scarey right now for me.

How would I go about de-capping the misfires (I'll call them for now)without re-sizing? Crank the decapping pin out the whole way or...?

The false shoulder seems very logical. But since I ONLY reload for .223, subsequently having only one set of dies, what do I have to buy die-wise to get them falsies? (Reminds me of this girlfriend I once had...)

Thanks for patience with the FNGR ("R" for reloader) Brian

[BillPa]

OK Friends- we have to remember Brian is VERY new to reloading. Before today I thought a "false shoulder" were those old timey pads dudes used to have put in their suit jackets to make 'em hang right. Jam against the lands? Running a friggin' boat aground. BTW- although I know folks bump the bullet out till it touches the lands, I wont be doing that. Too scarey right now for me.

How would I go about de-capping the misfires (I'll call them for now)without re-sizing? Crank the decapping pin out the whole way or...?

The false shoulder seems very logical. But since I ONLY reload for .223, subsequently having only one set of dies, what do I have to buy die-wise to get them falsies? (Reminds me of this girlfriend I once had...)

Thanks for patience with the FNGR ("R" for reloader) Brian


Well, first of all I need to apologize a bit. I been doing this stuff so long I tend to forget I was where your at a half of century ago.

To decapping live primers, I could probably could fill a five gallon bucket with the number I done for one reason or another. These days I use a Lee universal decapping die. I think when I bought mine it cost about 5-6 bucks.

You don't need another die depending on the manufacturer to make the falsies(:p) only another expander button if it will screw on the rod. Just swap the 223 for a 243/6mm then run the brass in the die just far enough so the button goes into the shoulder then pull it back out.

Finally reinstall the 22 button back on the rod, back the die off then start adjusting it back down sizing the neck a little at a time until the bolt just closes on the brass with a hint of resistance. Its really a simple process especially after you've done it a gazillion times!

Bill

[Silvercrow1]

Well, first of all I need to apologize a bit. I been doing this stuff so long I tend to forget I was where your at a half of century ago.

To decapping live primers, I could probably could fill a five gallon bucket with the number I done for one reason or another. These days I use a Lee universal decapping die. I think when I bought mine it cost about 5-6 bucks.

You don't need another die depending on the manufacturer to make the falsies(:p) only another expander button if it will screw on the rod. Just swap the 223 for a 243/6mm then run the brass in the die just far enough so the button goes into the shoulder then pull it back out.

Finally reinstall the 22 button back on the rod, back the die off then start adjusting it back down sizing the neck a little at a time until the bolt just closes on the brass with a hint of resistance. Its really a simple process especially after you've done it a gazillion times!

Bill

No apology necessary Bill. You are being helpful and I appreciate that! Thanks for the info.- understandable and succinct. I wish I'd started reloading many years ago. Dad was into it BIG time, but he had a serious problem with the bottle; with my mom and with me. I did "inherit" his passion for guns / shooting and some of his ability. AND- to me at my ripening old age, nothing better than learning about what you love, and loving what you learn.

And no better place than here to do it! Brian

[BillPa]

I wish I'd started reloading many years ago.

Well, I came by it honestly. My uncle was a gunwreaker, reloaded ammo for his customers and loved to play with weirdcats. I joke saying I was shooting a 7-08 years before there was a 7-08. I used to hang around his shop watching (bug'n) him while he worked. I guess I was eight or nine (1956-57!) when he started teaching me the fine art of reloading. It was only years later I discovered teaching wasn't his true purpose, I was cheap (say free) labor!

Bill

[davemuzz]

I wish I'd started reloading many years ago.

SC, I began to reload about ten years ago when I was forced to quit working because of this **** disease I have. Prior to that I did a minimal amount of shooting and most of my hunting was with flintlock rifles. But, when I could no longer golf or do a lot of those types of physical activities, plus being a "numbers guy" and my love of hunting, the shooting sports was a natural. I just began to read and subscribe to every shooting and reloading magazine I could and read piles of information.

Your never to late to teach an old dog a new trick.

BTW….of all the forums I visit, this one is my favorite. No politics, religion, "groupies" and the like. It's just the good discussion and sharing of knowledge.

FWIW

Dave

[eddiesindian]

SC, I began to reload about ten years ago when I was forced to quit working because of this **** disease I have. Prior to that I did a minimal amount of shooting and most of my hunting was with flintlock rifles. But, when I could no longer golf or do a lot of those types of physical activities, plus being a "numbers guy" and my love of hunting, the shooting sports was a natural. I just began to read and subscribe to every shooting and reloading magazine I could and read piles of information.

Your never to late to teach an old dog a new trick.

BTW….of all the forums I visit, this one is my favorite. No politics, religion, "groupies" and the like. It's just the good discussion and sharing of knowledge.

FWIW

Dave
well said Dave. This forum has moderators that run a tight ship...

[Silvercrow1]

UPDATE...UPI SELLERSVILLE PA>

I finally got around to "testing" the primers on the Scharch LC once fired and primed brass. Lubed 40 casings, hearing and eye protection on, nice thick piece of slate from my patio, favorite hammer. Whack whack etc.; five primers did not detonate. Another took two hits to detonate but I might have not hit it head on. On my initial loading four out of 20 did not detonate. I'm thinking the problem was probably with the primers.

Also on punching out (carefully) the live primers I FL resized the brass. Although it came sized and primed, it "felt" different; a little tighter feel, a slight bit more pressure needed on the downstroke than the other brass I've resized. BUT I am thinking that because this brass was 1- fired in another rifle and 2- sized on a commercial press, that this difference in feeling probably doesn't mean anything? Thoughts / opinions welcome.

As always- thanks! BTW- my new young neighbors think I'm really cool, "for being an older guy"! :cool: These young folks; just because I'm seen going and coming at all hours with guns, and hammering primers in the back yard...LOL

Brian