.308 Win. Loads Using Varget- VERY Confused

[jerry shaw]

Sounds like you have a good start on getting the results you want.

There is a lot of variance between barrels. I have 3 Savage .308 WIN barreled rifles. I checked all three with a Hornady Lock-N-Load-OAL Gauge. It's a really handy tool. The average measurement for 155 AMAX bullets varies from 2.785 (Savage Palma) to 2.842 (Shilen Barrel) to 2.830 (Savage 12 BVSS) inches. All three guns shoot very well (under 1/2 MOA), but use different bullets (and powder) to get there. The Palma gun works with 155 AMAX over N150. The Shilen-barreled gun likes Berger 155's over Varget and the BVSS likes Hornady Zombie Max -I'm not kidding.

The point is that you can get as OCD as you like tinkering with combinations. And what works with your gun may not work with mine. I did a lot of experimentation with my Palma gun before I found what it likes best. Or, you can find something that works reasonably well - such as Zombie Maxes for the BVSS -and go on to the next thing.

So long as you keep the pressures safe, you'll be ok.

Good luck.

[390fe]

To further prove what everyone else is saying, the Hodgdon website lists 46 grains of Winchester 760 under a Sierra 175 grain hpbt as a starting point, and 49 grains as max.

I'm using Nosler Custom Competition 175 grain hpbt's and my primers are starting to flatten out with only 47 grains of Winchester 760 powder.

[mikein]

Let your rifle do the talking, now! Sounds like 42.5 grains works for your rifle, and, assuming you have no signs of over pressure, make that your base line load. Now start experimenting with different primers, different brass, and different COAL's, and don't let all the conflicting reloading data sources mess up your mind!

[Silvercrow1]

Thanks all- most helpful and interesting. I recently continued load development for the Varget / 155 AMax combo and found 44.0 grains of Varget, CCI 200 primers and Lapua brass to be a winning combination. I have to get off my fat duff and post some target pics...

So I've gone to 130 Gn. Speer HP to work up a load for varmints (I can see them little suckers blowing up now...hee hee) and since I had some H335 powder available I used it. Mistake I made was using regular rifle primers; results were pretty dismal comparatively. So I took the best of the worst and loaded some duplicates with mag. primers (Winchester). We'll see how they do...Gosh this is fun!

Brian

[jerry shaw]

My Savage Palma likes 155 grain AMAXes better than anything else. I have tried 168 AMAXes as well, but they just don't print the little groups 155s do. It does not like Sierra 155s, either 2155 or 2156, nor is it especially fond of Bergers.

It typically produces bughole groups with 44.5 to 45.0 gr of N150. You can produce similar results with similar charges of Varget. The bullets stay supersonic (barely) at 1000 yards. I use this setup in LR matches and have been very satisfied.

I have run up the charge with Varget to 47.0 grains just to convince myself that the case/bullet combination can be used. It can, but I don't recommend it.

I ordinarily start with new Win or Lapua (standard large rifle primer size) brass and use BR-2 primers. Everything gets checked on the Win brass - primer pockets trued, flash holes deburred, neck walls turned. The Lapuas just get primed and loaded. Rounds get loaded with a Redding or Forster competition die. Primers are inserted with a Sinclair priming tool. Powder is trickled for every round. This stuff is intended to be shot at 1000 yards so I treat it like every little thing matters.

You will want to check that the bullets are seated at the right length for your chamber. I have found that my Palma chamber is shorter than any other .308 barrel I own. I'll set them just so they make contact or with about 0.002 jump. The OAL for AMAX 155 bullets just touching the lands is 2.785". A berger 155 just touching the lands measures 2.895" OAL. I have another model 12 (with a Shilen bull barrel) that shoots just as well as my Palma gun. Its chamber dimensions are significantly different. The rounds that work best with one do not shoot so well in the other. So, it's hard to come to really big definitive conclusions based on sparse data. You have to check each thing for your rifle.

One of the things I've seen is that getting the Savage Palma to run the way you want it to is a series of small steps. Mine shot pretty well right away, but it has taken a lot of incremental steps to make it really shine.

And, your Palma gun is built to shot lots of rounds - as in 50+ per match. It's intended to be accurate and stay accurate over the course of all those shots. So it doesn't make sense to me to shoot a three round group and call it good. I was brought up in that same Army as you. We teach 3 rounds to zero because the Army's operations research guys found that the average Soldier zeroes about as well with three as he does with five, and three rounds is cheaper. When I test I shoot lots groups - and that requires lots of rounds.

One thing unmentioned above is barrel hygiene. A dirty or copper-lined barrel won't shoot well. BUT - that doesn't mean you should use a stainless brush and a bottle of sweet's every time you clean. I use some foaming bore cleaner, JB bore paste and Kroil along with nylon brushes from Sinclair's to keep my bore happy. Maybe a little Butch's bore shine if I'm in no particular hurry to get finished cleaning. And a couple of patches soaked with Kroil when I'm finished. Sure, I'm maybe a little gentle on it, but my barrel is happy and the rifling looks almost like new after probably 2000 rounds. It shoots as well now as it ever did.

I hope this doesn't completely suck the fun out of getting your Palma to shoot. It's a great rifle once you get it figured out. And if you don't like it and can't get it to shoot, I'll pay a whole $500 for it - sight unseen!


Your mileage may vary.

Good luck.

JS

[limige]

Silvercrow I use the bullet manufacturers suggested load to start. Then load up to 2 grs above max. Two of each load.
Then load some sighters if you haven't sighted in that are midrange to book.

Find a place to shoot 400-500 yrds, believe me its worth it. Shoot a ladder test at two different targets. I used a tripod and my phone to take video of the shots a camcorder would be awesome.

Start low and work up shooting one bullet at your target for each powder load until you see pressure signs or run out. Make sure your target is large enough to get them all there will be large vertical disbursement. Say 2-3'

Go check your target and reshoot after the gun is cool at the other target. Watch the video and mark the order the shots hit the cardboard. Then in tbe lower corner record the number and corresponding charge for each number in the corner! Makes it clean and easy to see.

Your only looking at vertical change disregard horizontal. You will see a few nodes then load up five shots groups and shoot those long range and see what groups best.

This is the quickest way I've found. Great write up on snipershide about load development.

Here's what your ladder should look like

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/20130701_114940_zpse8d532e6.jpg