Ohhh!!! The Agony of It All

[rbp75503]

The search continues for a powder/bullet combination that will break through to the under .300" groups of my 260 Rem.

Just when I think I am on a roll the flying finger of fate shows up on the last round of a string. Getting home and measuring the 4 rounds of the 37.5gr load I find out I had a .178" group going into the last shot. Oh well there will be other days to get there.

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/rbp71854/11-02-2015_260REM-Savage-Shilen_140GR%20Sierra-MatchKing-1_zpsysqlfhgo.jpg

[XL105]

....

[eddiesindian]

The search continues for a powder/bullet combination that will break through to the under .300" groups of my 260 Rem.

Just when I think I am on a roll the flying finger of fate shows up on the last round of a string. Getting home and measuring the 4 rounds of the 37.5gr load I find out I had a .178" group going into the last shot. Oh well there will be other days to get there.

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/rbp71854/11-02-2015_260REM-Savage-Shilen_140GR%20Sierra-MatchKing-1_zpsysqlfhgo.jpg
to me?....thats pretty much dialed in....load up 10 37.5 and see what 10 shot pattern looks like. I think your already there. at least for now. I don't think you need any help. your there.

[LongRange]

what powders and bullets have you tried?

[rbp75503]

what powders and bullets have you tried?

I believe I am nearly done with 140gr bullet combinations. I am going to try some 123gr combo next.



Savage Mdl 110C 260 Rem 28" 1-8" Shilen









Lapua 139GR Scenar 4PL6018











Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






NoGo
H4350

37.0
41.1
40.0
.598"






NoGo
IMR4831

37.0
41.0
40.5
.589"






GoodToGo
Viht N550

33.2
38.0
37.0
.386"






Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.250"
BR2
IMR4831
40.5


H4350
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.250"
BR2
H4350
40.0


Viht N550
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.250"
BR2
Viht N550
37.0


Hornady 140GR AMAX











Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






Untested
RL-19
2.785"
38.1
45.1








NoGo
IMR4831
2.785"
36.0
41.0
40.0
.504"






NoGo
H4350
2.785"
39.0
43.0
42.0
.669"






Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"
2.820"
2.210"
BR2
IMR4831
40.0


H4350
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"
2.820"
2.210"
BR2
H4350
42.0















Sierra .264 140gr MatchKing HPBT










Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






Retest
BL-C(2)
2.765"
34.0
36.6
35.0
.595"






GoodToGo
Viht N550
2.765"
33.2
38.0
37.5
*.179"
* 4 Rounds Measured




GoodToGo
IMR4064
2.765"
32.0
37.1
37.0
.361"






NoGo
H4350
2.765"
41.5
44.5
44.0
.700"






GoodToGo
IMR4831
2.765"
41.0
44.0
42.5
.379"






NoGo
IMR3031
2.765"
30.0
32.5
31.5
.510"






Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4064
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.293"
1.623"
2.750"
2.240"
BR2
IMR4064
37.0


H4350
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.291"
1.623"
2.750"
2.243"
BR2
H4350
44.0


H4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.291"
1.623"
2.750"
2.240"
BR2
H4831
42.0


Viht N550
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.291"
1.623"
2.750"
2.240"
BR2
Viht N550
37.5


Berger 140GR Match BT Long Range Target









Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






Untested
RL-19
2.80"
38.0
42.5








Untested
H4350
2.80"
37.0
41.1








GoodToGo
IMR4831
2.80"
37.0
41.0
39.5
.401"






Untested
Vhit N550
2.80"
36.0
40.3








Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.265"
BR2
IMR4831
39.5

[LongRange]

how far off the lands are you seating? im assuming pretty close because of your ogive measurements you have posted.

[rbp75503]

how far off the lands are you seating? im assuming pretty close because of your ogive measurements you have posted.

I start my initial load development .010" off the lands. When I find a promising load I then load 4 different loadings varying the seating depths by .005".

These are my present distances off the lands based on results of varying the depths.

Scenars .015"; Amax .010"; MatchKings .013"; Bergers .019"

[LongRange]

if you havent you should shoot an OCW test...im guessing you are working up in charge weights .5g at a time if so your most likely missing good nodes...start at .025 off the lands...your using the right primers...and from your notes it looks like your not scared to go a little past book max...i have yet to shoot a shilen barrel that wont produce a 1 hole load with H4831sc and a 142gsmk or a 139g lapua...my long action 260 likes 45.8g H4831sc a 142g smk .030 off the lands and a BR-2 but will shoot a 139g lapua just as well...my new short action likes both those bullets with a slight edge going to the lapua with H4831sc or H4350 and a BR-2 all seated .030 off the lands...but the best load in my short action is a 42.9g H4350 140g berger hybrid seated .035 off the lands and a fed 210M primer.

with all that said ive never had any luck with the 140g hornadys(and ive shot 800 of them) or the VLD bergers so if i was you id read and follow the OCW link i posted and stick to the 139s and or get a 100 142s and try that and i bet you find a load....this is all assuming you and your rifle are up to par.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134

[eddiesindian]

I believe I am nearly done with 140gr bullet combinations. I am going to try some 123gr combo next.



Savage Mdl 110C 260 Rem 28" 1-8" Shilen









Lapua 139GR Scenar 4PL6018











Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






NoGo
H4350

37.0
41.1
40.0
.598"






NoGo
IMR4831

37.0
41.0
40.5
.589"






GoodToGo
Viht N550

33.2
38.0
37.0
.386"






Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.250"
BR2
IMR4831
40.5


H4350
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.250"
BR2
H4350
40.0


Viht N550
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.250"
BR2
Viht N550
37.0


Hornady 140GR AMAX











Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






Untested
RL-19
2.785"
38.1
45.1








NoGo
IMR4831
2.785"
36.0
41.0
40.0
.504"






NoGo
H4350
2.785"
39.0
43.0
42.0
.669"






Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"
2.820"
2.210"
BR2
IMR4831
40.0


H4350
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"
2.820"
2.210"
BR2
H4350
42.0















Sierra .264 140gr MatchKing HPBT










Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






Retest
BL-C(2)
2.765"
34.0
36.6
35.0
.595"






GoodToGo
Viht N550
2.765"
33.2
38.0
37.5
*.179"
* 4 Rounds Measured




GoodToGo
IMR4064
2.765"
32.0
37.1
37.0
.361"






NoGo
H4350
2.765"
41.5
44.5
44.0
.700"






GoodToGo
IMR4831
2.765"
41.0
44.0
42.5
.379"






NoGo
IMR3031
2.765"
30.0
32.5
31.5
.510"






Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4064
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.293"
1.623"
2.750"
2.240"
BR2
IMR4064
37.0


H4350
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.291"
1.623"
2.750"
2.243"
BR2
H4350
44.0


H4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.291"
1.623"
2.750"
2.240"
BR2
H4831
42.0


Viht N550
260 REM
Lapua
2.025"
.291"
1.623"
2.750"
2.240"
BR2
Viht N550
37.5


Berger 140GR Match BT Long Range Target









Powder
C.O.L.
Start
Max
Most Accurate
Group






Untested
RL-19
2.80"
38.0
42.5








Untested
H4350
2.80"
37.0
41.1








GoodToGo
IMR4831
2.80"
37.0
41.0
39.5
.401"






Untested
Vhit N550
2.80"
36.0
40.3








Lot #
Caliber
Case
Trim Length:
Neck Bushing
Headspace DL
O.A.L.
Ogive
Primer
Powder Type
Charge


IMR4831
260 REM
Lapua
2.026"
.291"
1.623"

2.265"
BR2
IMR4831
39.5




great info. ive been wanting to give 4064 a try as well an judging by your outcome, I may just start some more load development using 4064. been using it on 308 heavies for years. it always does well. Ive been trying imr 4895 here lately and much to my surprise. 37gr pushing 140 smks is giving good results.
thanks for the info..........and great shooting dude

[rbp75503]

Thanks for the link and the info. Yes, I have been a ladder test devotee since the 60's, but I may very well give an OCW test a try in the future. Not closed to trying new techniques.

I believe that my loadings are all .5gr below published max values. All load ranges come from Hodgon, VihtaVuori, or bullet manufacturers. If you have a specific example please enlighten me.

This was the last chance for Hornady bullets, I too have not been successful with them with the exception of 40gr V-Max in my 20 Practical.

Pretty sure the barrel is up to par, the nut behind the trigger is suspect. :cool:


if you havent you should shoot an OCW test...im guessing you are working up in charge weights .5g at a time if so your most likely missing good nodes...start at .025 off the lands...your using the right primers...and from your notes it looks like your not scared to go a little past book max...i have yet to shoot a shilen barrel that wont produce a 1 hole load with H4831sc and a 142gsmk or a 139g lapua...my long action 260 likes 45.8g H4831sc a 142g smk .030 off the lands and a BR-2 but will shoot a 139g lapua just as well...my new short action likes both those bullets with a slight edge going to the lapua with H4831sc or H4350 and a BR-2 all seated .030 off the lands...but the best load in my short action is a 42.9g H4350 140g berger hybrid seated .035 off the lands and a fed 210M primer.

with all that said ive never had any luck with the 140g hornadys(and ive shot 800 of them) or the VLD bergers so if i was you id read and follow the OCW link i posted and stick to the 139s and or get a 100 142s and try that and i bet you find a load....this is all assuming you and your rifle are up to par.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134

[LongRange]

Thanks for the link and the info. Yes, I have been a ladder test devotee since the 60's, but I may very well give an OCW test a try in the future. Not closed to trying new techniques.

I believe that my loadings are all .5gr below published max values. All load ranges come from Hodgon, VihtaVuori, or bullet manufacturers. If you have a specific example please enlighten me.

This was the last chance for Hornady bullets, I too have not been successful with them with the exception of 40gr V-Max in my 20 Practical.

Pretty sure the barrel is up to par, the nut behind the trigger is suspect. :cool:

i to was a ladder guy for a long time and then switched to shooting 5 shot groups at 200 and 300yds starting low and working up in .5g increments looking for loads...i had tried the OCW testing a couple of times and it did not work and i think even here on the board ive posted that it dont work. i recently tried it again and found a load in my load action that shot a .2925 group during the test and without changing anything that same load will shoot in the .3s all the time if im on...with my short action i just put together it took a couple of tests to find the load but there were a lot of other things going on with that rifle.

now the reason the OCW tests never worked in the past for me is because i never read all of the instructions and didnt follow them as they are laid out...once i did read ALL and follow them to a T i found a load after shooting 24 rounds...im a believer in the OCW now...i hate eating my own words about the OCW LOL!

with ladder testing there is so much that can give you false readings because your shooting at 4-500yds...im not saying ladders dont work im just saying i think the OCW test is easier to do easier to read and will save a lot of time and money for most shooters.

also i was looking at one charge weight and a different powder on your notes but after looking again i see you are a little below book max with most loads...if the hornadys dont shoot in a 100 rounds they are not going to...the berger VLDs are just to temperamental for me...im shooting the berger hybrids now and really like them and have always had great luck with the 142gsmk and the 139g lapuas...start with the lapua at .025 off the lands since you have some and run an OCW test with H4831sc if you have some..if you dont have H4831..use your H4350 and post up you results...and run your charges up to book max and just watch for over pressure signs.

[rbp75503]

I will certainly give it a try. Will load up some rounds this week during the expected monsoons and hopefully get to the range again next week.

[rbp75503]

Thanks LR for the suggestions. I was able to load up some OCW 139gr Lapua Scenars with H4350. Seated them at .025 off the lands. I think the results show for themselves.

http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/rbp71854/11-09-2015_260REM-Savage-Shilen_139GR%20Lapua-Scenars-1_zps8yvt23tk.jpg

[LongRange]

i bet you have another node just above 41.2...if you want to push it up that far...i bet it comes in right around 41.6 to 42gs...also a little seating tuning and 40g will be 1 hole...id try .035 and .015 off the lands with the 40g load and that will tell you if they want to be closer or farther off.

[rbp75503]

I agree that there probably is a node above 41.2. I really do not like to push beyond max loads, 41.2 as it is; is above my comfort level. Although I did not see any over pressure signs. I am a bit at a disadvantage as I do not have a crony. So I will be satisfied finding the sweet seating depth at 40grs.

Thanks again LR for the enlightenment.

[cowtownup]

Is that 40.8 and 41.2 load running around 2760-2770 FPS? Also, what length barrel are you shooting?

[LongRange]

I agree that there probably is a node above 41.2. I really do not like to push beyond max loads, 41.2 as it is; is above my comfort level. Although I did not see any over pressure signs. I am a bit at a disadvantage as I do not have a crony. So I will be satisfied finding the sweet seating depth at 40grs.

Thanks again LR for the enlightenment.

If seating depth dont change the 40g load then try 39.8g and 40.2g at .025 off but i think when you go a little closer to the lands with the lapuas its going to tighten up.

And your welcome.

[rbp75503]

Is that 40.8 and 41.2 load running around 2760-2770 FPS? Also, what length barrel are you shooting?

No crony so don't know actual velocity. The Shilen barrel is 28".

[LongRange]

should be real close to 2750 + or - a little...my first 260 barrel was a shilen prefit from jim and with 40.5g of IMR4530 and 139s i was at 2750-2770.

[cowtownup]

Out of my 26" barrel 40.8 grains of H4350 will push the 140 AMAX around 2750's ... I am getting ready to try the 140 Hybrids and QL says I'll need to be around 41.6 to get the same barrel time and that will be around 2770 FPS..

I just worry I'm giving up some performance by pushing them that slow. I know if its not accurate then what have you got, but I just want to make sure... Sorry for the slight thread hijack...