How To Make 308 Brass From 30-06

[gbflyer]

They are probably those China counterfeit Lapua cases.:wacko:

Dean

PS: It also really likes those 150 and 155gr Sierra's

Hahaha, yeah could be. Those buggers can copy just about any package.

[FW Conch]

Roll on Deano! I can't wait for publication of the "scope eye Loading Manual"! ;-))

[bushrat]

I missed the point, why would you make 308 out of 30-06 as 308 is more common than 30-06.

[FW Conch]

I have a 358Win barrel that has a very large throat, that I leave a false shoulder to accommodate. The thicker necks from a reformed 30/06 case could help with that problem.

Thanks Dean! ... Jim :-)

[scope eye]

I missed the point, why would you make 308 out of 30-06 as 308 is more common than 30-06.


It was just to show that you could make 308, 7-08, 260,243, Creedmoor and savage 250 and 300 cases from 30-06 with relative easy, and like I said earlier, it has nothing to do with cost or amount of labor it is just general knowledge reloaders should have.

Dean

[Robinhood]

This also holds true for the mountains of 270 brass that is left on the ground right before hunting season.

[bigedp51]

I missed the point, why would you make 308 out of 30-06 as 308 is more common than 30-06.

Bushrat

The procedure scope eye is posting is "NOT" as simple as scope eye is trying to make you believe and requires far more steps in its conversion.

The photo below is from the link I posted above, the four cases in the front marked 43.1 are the cases converted from 30-06 to .308.

The brass in these four cases are thicker in the neck and shoulder area than a standard .308 cartridge case.

These four cases were neck reamed and neck turned "BUT" as you can see in the photo these cases were not annealed and have powder residue on the necks and shoulder.

Not only did these converted cases not seal the chamber at the neck and shoulder area because of the harder brass, these cases will fail from cracked necks much sooner because the brass is too hard.

Depending on the type case used you can end up with a case neck several thousandths thicker near the case shoulder. Meaning after sizing and expanding the case neck will be tapered and wedge shaped.

In the very least the converted cases will need to be neck turned and annealed and before and after measurements taken to insure uniformity.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/P1010180_zps8jnewal2.jpg

And after over 47 years of reloading I do not understand what scope eye is trying to prove by not posting all that is required to make quality brass.

Shoving a 30-06 case in a .308 die and cutting it to length is only the start of this case conversion. And there are more steps that scope eye has left out making this posting questionable at best.

[scope eye]

Everyday when I wake up I try and think of new ways I can kill, Maim, or injurer as many forum members as I can. Well I failed this time but tomorrow is another day, I am sure I will come up with something God willing, In the mean time everyone take care or take cover.

Dean

[Robinhood]

Why not just use your information to enhance Scope eyes post. Anyone who goes to the trouble of making this brass is going to learn some things. Almost all people who go to that trouble are experienced reloaders. Most know that when small caliber cases have over .015" wall thickness, it makes it difficult for the neck to seal on the chamber. If you do not anneal and combine that with thick walls then the seating pressure will be extreme. Pressure signs will show up immediately when you combine harder thicker necks. This is not rocket science.

By nature you like to take things to the Nth degree. I am like that too. Others do not have the time to write a dissertation with years of collected graphics and links to articles of experience to make their point. It almost seams like it is a personal that you prove him wrong. All you have done is told the rest of the story. Please, use your valuable experience, links and graphics to enhance a post not belittle and demean another member. It has value but loses merit when it is chest pounding.

[rjtfroggy]

To all following this thread BIGEDP51 is a wealth of information and experience but his way of getting it across has caused a vacation or two from here( about a year right Ed). He also is on vacation from Accurateshooter right now I think because he hasn't been over there for a while.
Now Ed i'm not starting a fight with you because I believe you are a very knowledgeable man with lots of real world experience and I always pick up something from at least one of your post, so please keep it civil so everyone can learn a little something.

[scope eye]

I have certainly learned something, what I have learned is that the mods and administrators have let a twice banned member run his mouth and run amok, and attack a long time and consistent contributing member, thanks guys.

signed
Disappointed

[bigedp51]

I have certainly learned something, what I have learned is that the mods and administrators have let a twice banned member run his mouth and run amok, and attack a long time and consistent contributing member, thanks guys.

signed
Disappointed

I will be the first to admit I graduated first in my class from the Attila the Hun school of diplomacy and might be overly blunt.

But my eight year old grandson could do what you did in this posting.

You did not post any detailed information in your post about neck thickness, annealing, etc.

What technical information did you supply other than resizing a 30-06 to 308?

What new reloaders need and older reloaders like to see are informative postings and you posing here had nothing that others can learn from.

Bottom line your posting lacked over 95% of what is needed for this conversion.

Now read the "informative" posting below that does have plenty of details and information.

Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/dies_overworking_brass.html

Posting photos of a 30-06 converted to .308 "without details" and photos of your chronograph readings does not teach anyone anything.


Ask anyone I have done and posted some really edgy stuff on this forum over the years as far as loading, velocity, wildcats, ect and which others have tried and we are all still here to talk about it.

Dean

Sorry but your post here was far from being "edgy stuff" and lacked all the meat and potatoes a full course meal would have.

And you are not being attacked, I'm explaining to you and the other forum members you did not supply any technical information in your posting.

Signed
Attila the Hun

[bigedp51]

To all following this thread BIGEDP51 is a wealth of information and experience but his way of getting it across has caused a vacation or two from here( about a year right Ed). He also is on vacation from Accurateshooter right now I think because he hasn't been over there for a while.
Now Ed i'm not starting a fight with you because I believe you are a very knowledgeable man with lots of real world experience and I always pick up something from at least one of your post, so please keep it civil so everyone can learn a little something.


Yes I was banned here, one moderator made a sticky of what I posted and another moderator banned me for saying it. "BUT" after asking I was allowed to return and my ban had nothing to do with hurt feelings or who thinks they are the top dog in this forum.

I always try to provide a wealth of information and "how to's" in my postings and all this posting contained were photos of a 30-06 converted to .308 and nothing more.

[bigedp51]

Why not just use your information to enhance Scope eyes post. Anyone who goes to the trouble of making this brass is going to learn some things. Almost all people who go to that trouble are experienced reloaders. Most know that when small caliber cases have over .015" wall thickness, it makes it difficult for the neck to seal on the chamber. If you do not anneal and combine that with thick walls then the seating pressure will be extreme. Pressure signs will show up immediately when you combine harder thicker necks. This is not rocket science.

By nature you like to take things to the Nth degree. I am like that too. Others do not have the time to write a dissertation with years of collected graphics and links to articles of experience to make their point. It almost seams like it is a personal that you prove him wrong. All you have done is told the rest of the story. Please, use your valuable experience, links and graphics to enhance a post not belittle and demean another member. It has value but loses merit when it is chest pounding.

Robinhood

I do not know who scope eye is and my statements here are not personal, it boils do to "What did scope eye teach this forum.

My answer is simple, nothing was learned from scope eye's posts. And how many cartridges are based on a case with a .470 base diameter to make conversions from.

What would be the neck thickness of a Remington 30-06 converted to .308 and what what would a Winchester 30-06 neck thickness be when converted?

Why do some competitive shooters anneal their cases after each firing and scope eye say nothing about annealing the converted cases.

What I'm trying to get across is posting a photo of a 30-06 converted to 308 doesn't teach anything.

Below earl39 gave a suger coated answer and it just isn't about a newbie reading this. It deals with making informative postings with detailed information that informs everyone reading it.


No one said Dean didn't know what he was doing even if Ed did question as to having the correct tools to do the job correctly. The way i read it was Dean didn't go into enough detail about the process incase a newbie read it and decided to make 308 brass that way. It really is not just size and cut and good to go with every brand of brass. Some brands you can do that with some chambers but without annealing the new neck will split in just a few loads and neck tension will not have any consistency. Dean will be the first to tell you that he pushes the envelope on some stuff and then the humorous comment about cutting a pressure relief grove in the side of the case. Yes i know that was a joke but we all tend to forget there are people out there that just don't know any better. It has to be true because it was on the internet.

This is the reloading forum and not the mutual back slapping forum for a few buddies. And the people in this forum deserve more information presented than just a photos without any details.

forum
noun: forum; plural noun: forums

1. A place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

[Robinhood]

Look Ed, You are right. There is more to it than what Dean posted. So what. You could ad to it and be done with it but no, you become consumed with it.

I know that this post will come at a price to me but here goes. Ed, I could write a book on the conflicts I have witnessed you initiate over little things. Obsessive does not quantify your demeanor. How many times have you told others to be humble and all it ever turns out to be is hypocrisy. People don't forget ed. Here is a copy from something you posted on 24hr last year in a thread typical of how your contributions turn out.



A wise man is frequently humbled, and a douchebag just keeps sticking his foot in his mouth.

The really sad part is the moderator left this forum because it smelled so bad here. smokepole try a vinegar douche and your breath won't stink as bad.
Reference Link: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10344906/3

This is one of the more clean responses to your contributions in the same thread.


Mr Bigedp51,

You haven't gotten off to a very good start have you. This is a hunting, shooting, gun, and other-things-related website where folks come to chatter about the same. And quite a lot of them too--I haven't looked lately but maybe 40-50,000 members--so, it's quite a popular website where there are a lot of very knowledgeable, skilled, and otherwise interested people sharing information.

You obviously know something about hand loading, probably very much, maybe a lot more than I do though I'm going on fifty years of filling brass too. But what you don't seem to grasp is where the line is between affable disagreement and dogmatic knuckleheadism. And what's more you are either apparently completely unaware of when you "cross over" or you simply don't care. The second is a little more problematic for getting along here.

As to MD, though he doesn't need any defense from me, I'll chime in anyway. The guy is encyclopedic for "this stuff," but even more, as to this site, he's has shown himself to be patient, and generous with his time. I've met him personally and communicated with him here often and I would call him a gentleman. On my Forster Arrogance Inspector, there is no run-out with him that I've detected.

My advice for "some brass and case polishing and refurbishment" would be to post here again, subdue your lofty opinion of yourself a bit, and come in for a soft landing Mia culpa. This advice comes not even at the traditional $.02 charge; it's free.

This is typical and probably the reason you got booted from Accurate Shooter.

I have come to view you as a very well read, studious individual who loves to start arguments and prove your value in an attempt to gain validation. You join forums to discuss the topic you love, but in the end the outcome is the same. Loss of respect and often getting kicked off of the forum. Sadly you have a lot to contribute. You just never learned common respect. Write a book. I think it would sell, I might even buy it.

I'm done with it.

[bigedp51]

I have certainly learned something, what I have learned is that the mods and administrators have let a twice banned member run his mouth and run amok, and attack a long time and consistent contributing member, thanks guys.

signed
Disappointed

A forum is where "information" is shared and even debated, if your feelings are hurt because someone disagrees with you then get over it.

The 30-06 case converted to .308 has a thicker case neck, and when full length resized in a normal FL die using a expander, then the neck will be over worked and be short lived.

This type case in order to not be overworked would need a bushing die with a over sized bushing to not overwork the case neck.

This same case in a bushing die would need to be neck turned do it would not push the neck irregularities to the inside of the case neck.

And last but not least the reformed case will need to be annealed, this will make the brass softer, the case will then seal the chamber at the shoulder and neck when fired. "AND" these cases will not die early from cracked brittle necks.

If you think I'm picking on you then you have no idea how to discuss reloading in a open forum and how to do it the right way.

The first milsurp rifle I bought was a German made 7.65 Belgian Mauser in 1974 and the reloading manual said the cases could be formed from 30-06 cases, The problem was the 100 Remington 30-06 cases I bought for this conversion had oversized case necks with the bottom 1/3 of the neck being too tight to fit in the chamber with no room to expand when fired.

So again there is more to reloading forums than posting photos without any measurements and detailed information. (meaning "Where's the beef" in YOUR posting.

[bigedp51]

Look Ed, You are right. There is more to it than what Dean posted. So what. You could ad to it and be done with it but no, you become consumed with it.

I know that this post will come at a price to me but here goes. Ed, I could write a book on the conflicts I have witnessed you initiate over little things. Obsessive does not quantify your demeanor. How many times have you told others to be humble and all it ever turns out to be is hypocrisy. People don't forget ed. Here is a copy from something you posted on 32 hr last year in a thread typical of how your contributions turn out.
Reference Link: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10344906/3

This is one of the more clean responses to your contributions in the same thread.

This is typical and probably the reason you got booted from Accurate Shooter.

I have come to view you as a very well read, studious individual who loves to start arguments and prove your value in an attempt to gain validation. You join forums to discuss the topic you love, but in the end the outcome is the same. Loss of respect and often getting kicked off of the forum. Sadly you have a lot to contribute. You just never learned common respect. Write a book. I think it would sell, I might even buy it.

I'm done with it.

And what you are doing here is the same thing the "good ol' boys" did at the 24hourcampfire, you are saying I'm not part of our buddy buddy group so get lost. On top of this you are also violating forum rules.

The 24hourcampfire was nothing more than a mutual back slapping forum where only a few opinions mattered. What you didn't post about this forum was the two PMs I got after my first posting from forum members saying the same thing and I was going to get jumped on. Who the heck cares about a forum like this when the people act like a bunch of adolescent grade school kids. The lanuage used was started by many of the forum member and why I said "The really sad part is the moderator left this forum because it smelled so bad" meaning the forum was out of control long before I arrived and using the language I used in return to them.

So tell me Robinhood and tell the rest of this forum what technical information did YOU add to the subject here. I will answer this, you added nothing as far as information goes and venting is not technical information.

So go ahead and complain and see if you can have me banned, if postings like this are the best this forum can do, then its not worth being here with a bunch of adolescent grade school kids..

[Robinhood]

Ed, Are you seriously telling yourself the problem lies with everyone but you?
True to form, turn on anyone that attempts to shed light on your social deviance. Like a rabid dog. Let it go man, move on and try hard to make it about the facts not the OP. How is it one justifies stifling contributions from others due to fear of retribution?

[bigedp51]

Ed, Are you seriously telling yourself the problem lies with everyone but you?
True to form, turn on anyone that attempts to shed light on your social deviance. Like a rabid dog. Let it go man, move on and try hard to make it about the facts not the OP. How is it one justifies stifling contributions from others due to fear of retribution?

So how thick are your converted case necks and how often do you anneal Robinhood?

And this is a reloading forum where reloading is discussed and not a psychology forum for amateurs or crybabies.

There are properly made converted cases and cases that don't even seal the chamber.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/P1010180_zps8jnewal2.jpg

And again Robinhood you added nothing to the topic of this posting other than your bile.

Have a nice day..............and "Where's the Beef".

[Robinhood]

Ben, Shootdots(you remember him) encourages me to do it after every firing but I am not a serious as him. I go every third firing. I don't have a reason to make brass out of 30-06 but may one day. It would probably be a good thing to do/know in a bad situation if you had too. I have done 260 out of Lapua Palma and LC 08

I have other hobbies so living for arguments on reloading threads is not what I live for. I am usually in the garage making various parts on the old Southbend 1450c for a couple of small instrument shops locally. Mostly prototype stuff. I make custom expander dies and turning mandrels for most all of the makes of neck turners for some of the local fellas too. Nothing fancy mind you. Just simple easy to adjust, change and concentric. I also train gun dogs, got a real handful with this Chessy right now. She's coming around. Reminds me of you.