trueing/timing work

[Robinhood]

Well put Phil. It is amusing on how many believe a floating bolthead compensates for the barrel and the action/scope mount(sight) misalignment. You did a much better job of delivering the concept than I have done for sure.

As far as truing and machining things, how many trued actions and custom actions would you find in a hunters or casual competitors safe. I have seen a bunch of them. I know a lot of smiths moving custom stuff on a regular basis. I am certain there are a lot of rifles out there that are capable of much more that what the user can do with them. Some of us build things to perform way above what is required. I am kind of like that, just not to the point of buying a custom action. I like polishing turds.

At the end of the day there is a Stevens 200 with a 7mm08 Shaw barrel and a Sightron SII Big Sky 2.5x10 in the safe that shoots 3 shot groups better than anything I have seen. Total cost 700 including the very nice glass. I sold the factory barrel and got $75 for it so that's even better. I did grind the factory lug and honed the action face but that is it.

[LoneWolf]

If all those issues were regular concern we wouldn't be putting together rifles in our garages with 0 training/education on the subject.... However, when you want to be a "Pro" then you start looking at what's working best for the Pros and why they choose to do it that way.

[Robinhood]

This is a savage forum right. For a moment I thought I was on the hide.

[LoneWolf]

This is a savage forum right. For a moment I thought I was on the hide.

I just drop the knowledge and understanding in my head based on personal experience. I don't get into discussions over there, but they are usually quicker to buy Non-Savage related items over there :whistle:

[yobuck]

I think most of us are perfectly content just being a "semi pro". lol
Im interpreting the answer to my question to be if you can fine, but if you cant don't worry about it.
Which by the way I never have.

[LoneWolf]

My idea of moving towards the goal of being a Pro Competitive shooter is eliminating all other factors, so that performance is solely based on me as the shooter and true skill can shine through. Therefore at that point the only option is to start building as close to perfect precision rifles to compete with, shoot a round like the 6.5x47 that is extremely consistent and easy to load for which provides very little changes throughout it's barrel life span, and start a training regime that allows me to compete to the best of my ability all why managing "life" outside of this personal goal.

In this game a "semi-pro" can still be extremely competitive. They even sometimes out shoot the "Pro", but the Pro is normally more consistent. I am still trying to break the barrier of consistency at matches. 1 day events I'm rather solid. The 2 Day events take quite a bit more conditioning to shoot well on both days.

The biggest item I've learned whether shooting for fun or sport is that you must always have fun. If you're not having fun, you probably need a break, training from a 3rd party, or reputable instructor.

[Robinhood]

I just drop the knowledge and understanding in my head based on personal experience. I don't get into discussions over there, but they are usually quicker to buy Non-Savage related items over there :whistle:

That's cool. My thoughts are this is a Savage specific forum. That would entail perspectives from guys like Fred, who has made the Savage action part of his lifes work, to the guys who have one rifle and it is an Axis or a b-mag and they shoot or hunt a few times a year. Not everyone has the perspective of buying or having a 10,000 dollar a year hobby where only the finest equipment will do. Some of us have access to tools to where we can make mods relatively cheap. Some have no tools at all.

Phil, You have outgrown the Savage. I appreciate your insight and have watched your commitment to your trade launch your knowledge of the shooting sport that gives you your finely tuned perspective. I even try to follow your competitive endeavors. However as a moderator, I can't really grasp how you are attempting to stifle anyone who wants to bring precision and accuracy improvements to their preference of rifles. Fred does it, John Weil, Stan Pate and Darrel Buell do it, and the many of the guys that are on this forum do it. Savage is my mount Everest. If improving the savage action is a pet peeve of yours I can live with that.

[LoneWolf]

It's not a pet peeve at all. It's actually the foundation of my knowledge and also drove a lot of personal time spent on the research of what other options offer. I took the Savage action as far as I felt I personally could before I decided to upgrade.

Timing/Truing has a specific purpose and my understanding of it comes from speaking with a number of Smith's. I decided I'd rather put that service cost back into the funds for a higher end product that wouldn't require it from the start. What level of equipment someone uses doesn't bother me at all. If someone wanted to put $1k of work into a Savage action that's fine, but it is what it is in the end....

Mine points have only been as to why I have chosen this route and what I recommend to the OP in this post is based on me being in there position, but with current experience.

[yobuck]

Well some types of competition require more raw talent than others, and that includes the shooting sports.
Id say the type your involved in would be one of them.
Trap shooting would be another. Ive known at least a handful of guys who got to the point they could break 100 straight occaissionaly with a gun like a plain old 870 Rem. But ive never known one who broke 200 straight, even though a few tried with very expensive guns.
They just weren't 200 hitters, and the gun quality didn't help much.
Now as for long range target shooting, the more experienced shooters get to know the days they might, from the days they wont.
It can come down to what relay you shot on making the difference, and not necessarily just skill level.
Some days you gits the bear, and some days the bear gonna git you.

[LoneWolf]

Well some types of competition require more raw talent than others, and that includes the shooting sports.
Id say the type your involved in would be one of them.
Trap shooting would be another. Ive known at least a handful of guys who got to the point they could break 100 straight occaissionaly with a gun like a plain old 870 Rem. But ive never known one who broke 200 straight, even though a few tried with very expensive guns.
They just weren't 200 hitters, and the gun quality didn't help much.
Now as for long range target shooting, the more experienced shooters get to know the days they might, from the days they wont.
It can come down to what relay you shot on making the difference, and not necessarily just skill level.
Some days you gits the bear, and some days the bear gonna git you.

This I completely agree with that assessment, but it plays a bigger factor with static line events like F-Class, X-Course, and BR. If you get more wind on your relay etc. it definitely will skew the scores.

In PRS 2 day matches we typically shoot 20 completely different stages within the Course of Fire over 2 days. Yes you could have an unlucky run on a long range stage with the wind. My buddy had the wind flip 180* right before his first shot and go from 5-8mph to 21-22mph. However, if he had shot consistently well on the other 19 stages (typically 80% or better) he still would have placed very well. The winners keep on winning because they are willing to train for as many possibilities as possible. A mental mistake will typically cost us way more points than the wind. for instance I wrote down the wrong dope and zero'd a stage that I likely would have cleaned. It was a prone stage all under 600yds and I had been cleaning stages all morning. It dropped me from a tie for 3rd to 16th place. If we would have got to shoot the last 6 stages of the match that were thrown out due to a fog that wouldn't lift I probably would have made up a few more places...

But I come back to having fun and I actually had a blast at that match.

[Robinhood]

It's not a pet peeve at all. It's actually the foundation of my knowledge and also drove a lot of personal time spent on the research of what other options offer. I took the Savage action as far as I felt I personally could before I decided to upgrade.

Timing/Truing has a specific purpose and my understanding of it comes from speaking with a number of Smith's. I decided I'd rather put that service cost back into the funds for a higher end product that wouldn't require it from the start. What level of equipment someone uses doesn't bother me at all. If someone wanted to put $1k of work into a Savage action that's fine, but it is what it is in the end....

Mine points have only been as to why I have chosen this route and what I recommend to the OP in this post is based on me being in there position, but with current experience.


The OP has already purchased his rifle, a trigger, a barrel and is working on the stock. Lets say $1600+ investment without the optics. Im going to work off this premise.

In F/class upsetting the rifle between rounds can be costly. Cocking a Savage will upset the rifle making target acquisition more time consuming and ultimately cause fatigue. One of the things that mitigates that is bolt lift improvement. For 175 Plus shipping Fred will do this work for you. The difference made in my scores was significant with the improved bolt lift. Well worth 2 or 3 hundred bucks.

I feel that to propose for him to sell all of his stuff and buy a $1300+ action, a $600 stock, a $250 trigger and a $350+ barrel($2500+) is not only moving out of the parameters of the OP's question but taking 700 out of his pocket for better glass. Savages do well in F/ class, one. Two, if you have the ability to do some stuff yourself lets do it. This forum has some guys that are willing to do things on there own to save money. DIY Lift Kits, barrel changes or even installing a SAVII on a bottom release in a chassis. On here we are Hacks and Savagesmiths as well as real smiths. Drop's mic..............

[LoneWolf]

Ok. Not sure where exactly I suggested for him to drop everything and buy a new rifle, but sure. He could also pick up a Stiller Predator or Bighorn Origin for around $800-$900, throw the same prefit style barrel on it and be closer to the $1800-$2k mark.

I've been around here since 2013, not as long as some, but I've hacked up and modified a number of Savages. I still do for many friends who are just starting out or know that I have the tools to do barrel swaps and fix some of the known issues. So although I have moved on from running Savage actions the newer shooters find them handy to get started and I still stand behind that. Like I've always said Savages fill a Gap in the market and they do it very well. Whether that Gap fulfills your needs or not is up for the individual to decide.

To close my comments here, I'm not going to argue with someone who is creating an argument for the sake of having an argument. There's nothing to prove here on the forum and it doesn't help the OP or any other member for that matter. If you have further items of discussion you can PM me.

[rjtfroggy]

The three previous posters have all been around lomg enough to know I have taken my personal Savages to a higher level at a much higher cost.
I shoot short range BR and use a Model 12 single shot that has been timed and trued and a 3oz. trigger installed ground lug, with a 6 x 45 X caliber barrel all in a McMillan Edge LV toppep with Kelby base and rings and a Weaver T36. You don't want know the final cost.
Second one is a PTA timed and trued (can't feel or see a difference from before) it is also in a McMillan Edge with a 6BR X caliber with Leupold 45 comp. and all Leupold bases and rings. Another expensive rig. They both shoot under 1/4 at 100 but are both out classed in the score game but to be perfectly HONEST I am happy I did what I did but would have been better off dumping the cash into a Custom built rifle, and I am at this time pricing one out for Hunter class.
My opinion and take it for what it cost, save your money shoot what you have because you will change your needs once you find your way and the Savage will not hold it's value like a custom will.

[yobuck]

The desire to win can cause people to do things that defy logic.
We could no doubt have similar discussions about bowling balls, and for sure golf clubs.
But at least the best golfers get paid very well. lol