First results with new 12 FV .223

[wyosam]

I think I found my heavy load- 73gr ELDM, 24.0 gr RL15. 200 yard target. 0.3 grains either way were also quite good. 1.050”. Hard to believe that’s a $400 dollar gun. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200222/df7dbeae952c9b97866aa902571976de.jpg


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[hamiltonkiler]

I think I found my heavy load- 73gr ELDM, 24.0 gr RL15. 200 yard target. 0.3 grains either way were also quite good. 1.050”. Hard to believe that’s a $400 dollar gun. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200222/df7dbeae952c9b97866aa902571976de.jpg


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I hate to sound like a repeat recorder but you may find the 77gn smk is your heavy 1-9 twist load that shoots sub MOA all day.
Cheers and good shooting.


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[charlie b]

I wish I had read through this again before stopping by to get some bullets. I was looking for something a bit less expensive than the 77gn SMK's that I like so much.

They did not have the Nosler match bullets, which did well for me so I stumbled onto the Hornady 68gn BTHP. Yep, like CF says, they aren't worth the money. The cheap Hornady 55gn FMJBT shoot just as well as those things. I guess I am going to just go back to the 77SMK's. It is too much fun to shoot little groups at longer ranges to mess around with the less accurate bullets.

[CFJunkie]

charlie b,

Some rifles are very sensitive to the amount of bullet body that is touching the rifling.
I think you will find that the 68 BHTP bullets might be a bit shorter in the body than the 69 SMKs or TMKs.
Then certainly are a lot shorter in the bullet body than your 77 SMK favorites.
Unfortunately, none of the manufacturers provide that measurement so you have to find out after you pay your money and take your chances.

I went back an looked at my data for the 12 FV .223 1:9 twist.
The Nosler CC 69 grain bullets shot 26% better than the Hornady 68s in a relatively small group samples.
The 69 SMKs shot 46% better than the Noslers and 85% better than the Hornady 68s.
Your favorite 77 SMKs shot 10.8% better than the 69 SMKs comparing very large group samples.

I have found that once I find a bullet that works really well, I buy them in bulk and then just buy 100 bullets of potential bullets to experiment. I have rarely found really good replacements using that approach but the Sierra 77 grain SMK and TMK bullets in my 1:9 twist .223 rifles were a pleasant surprise.
Thanks again for putting me onto that possibility and encouraging me to try the 77 grain bullets out, even tough all the experts say they won't stabilize.

Sorry to be out of touch for a while.
My wife of 54 years died of a heart attack in mid-December and it has taken me a while to get interested in shooting and reloading again or even visiting Savageshooters.com to keep in touch.
I've been trying to get out and shoot some to get a break from all the estate executor stuff but the weather hasn't been too cooperative.

[Texas10]

Very sorry for your loss, CFJunkie. That's a long time to be with someone, and losing a life long partner can be especially hard. I pray that you'll find the peace and strength to carry on.

Your 54 years together eclipses the sum total of all three of my marriages. That really had to be something special.

[Robinhood]

Sorry to be out of touch for a while.
My wife of 54 years died of a heart attack in mid-December and it has taken me a while to get interested in shooting and reloading again or even visiting Savageshooters.com to keep in touch.
I've been trying to get out and shoot some to get a break from all the estate executor stuff but the weather hasn't been too cooperative.

Very sorry to hear for your loss bud. Good to see you back on here as you are a valuable contributor. God speed in recovering from your grief.

[charlie b]

Thanks for your reply during this time. I am sorry for your loss. I don't know how I would cope if I lost my wife after 45yrs of being together.

You are welcome about the 77gn SMK's. They put a smile on my face every time I shoot them. I wish I could remember the name of the poster in this forum who recommended them in another thread. It was his posts that got me convinced to try them. I've searched a few times and just can't find it and don't even remember to topic area we were discussing that led to it.

[CFJunkie]

Thought you guys might want to see the long term results for my Powder-Bullet Averages for the 12 FV.
6949
As you can see the 69 and 77 grain bullets are at the top of the list with only 0.024 from the best to the worst average.
I have reported my loads with IMR4166 powder on this and the 110 rifle forum.
I have just started to use N140 powder with this rifle to try it out.
Considering that I have only started shooting again in late January and have been out of practice, the N140 shows a lot of promise.

I admit that once I have shot a few groups (assuming thatI know I did my part) and get lousy results, I generally abandon that bullet.

[hamiltonkiler]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200226/32fd5fa43e5ff86d6d0e71b731775e36.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200226/a4c106f888632649e4b1ceb3ab719b3d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200226/08f160ef5f105497f96f382dff6e8be7.jpg

[CFJunkie]

Here is a summary of my most recent results with N140 powder with Sierra 69 SMKs and TMKs and Sierra 77 SMKs and TMKs.

6951

It shows I was a bit out of practice but the average results are surprisingly similar for all the bullets and weights.
The Averages, Medians and Standard Deviations are a bit larger than I would like, but it shows that I had not yet managed to maintain consistency after more than a month layoff.

[hamiltonkiler]

Here is a summary of my most recent results with N140 powder with Sierra 69 SMKs and TMKs and Sierra 77 SMKs and TMKs.

6951

It shows I was a bit out of practice but the average results are surprisingly similar for all the bullets and weights.
The Averages, Medians and Standard Deviations are a bit larger than I would like, but it shows that I had not yet managed to maintain consistency after more than a month layoff.

Great shooting! Any pictures of the gun you would like to share?


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[CFJunkie]

Not much to see.
6954
Just a 12 FV with an Oryx stock.
But there is a temperature strip on the barrel, a Sightron 36X set in Burris Signature Zee Rings.
the picture also shows my standard bench set up.
The rifle is mounted on a Sinclair Gen-3 F-Class bipod and the rear rest is a Protektor bag with a carry handle.
There is a Barrelcool fan in the breach and a Sinclair elbow pad to the far side of the rear bag.

I recently changed to a Leupold 45X scope for this rifle.
I got it at a bargain price from a range buddy who is moving and was reducing the amount of stuff he had to move.
The latest N140 loads were shot with the new Leupold 45X.
Even an increase in magnification can't overcome being out of practice.

[hamiltonkiler]

Not much to see.
6954
Just a 12 FV with an Oryx stock.
But there is a temperature strip on the barrel, a Sightron 36X set in Burris Signature Zee Rings.
the picture also shows my standard bench set up.
The rifle is mounted on a Sinclair Gen-3 F-Class bipod and the rear rest is a Protektor bag with a carry handle.
There is a Barrelcool fan in the breach and a Sinclair elbow pad to the far side of the rear bag.

I recently changed to a Leupold 45X scope for this rifle.
I got it at a bargain price from a range buddy who is moving and was reducing the amount of stuff he had to move.
The latest N140 loads were shot with the new Leupold 45X.
Even an increase in magnification can't overcome being out of practice.

Dang what a beauty!


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[CFJunkie]

From the temperatures at the time the loads were shot in the list in post #70, you can see that the 77 TMK loads were shot first during each of the morning sessions. because the temperature was the coldest.
That may account for why the 77 TMK average is the worst of the lot.
With the lack of practice time, I suspect it took me longer to get my technique together.
Normally, my concentration is the best shooting the first load of the day, but for the first two sessions that seemed to be just the opposite.
For the last session, the 77 TMK average was the best of the day and the second best of all the averages for all three days.
The 77 TMK load was also the first load shot on the third day.
Maybe the practice did do some good, after all.

[TommyD11730]

This thread was a great read. Thank you for your attention to detail and documentation.
With luck I will have my new to me 12 FV (223) at the range tomorrow. Added a 15 yo Bushnell elite 3x9 .
My load will be SMK 69'S on Varget. 24.4, 24.6 and 24.8 grains when loaded just under the Ogive yielded COAL of 2.298, give or take.
Fingers crossed.

[CFJunkie]

Thanks for the compliment. I didn't think anyone was still reading this old thread.

There is another set of results documenting the results when I changed the factory stock to the Oryx Chassis that may also help.

https://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?64623-Documented-results-from-replacing-the-12-FV-factory-stock-with-an-Oryx-Chassis

[TommyD11730]

The (sometimes) great thing about the internet is once something is said, it's out there forever.
I like the fact you made mention of Quickload. Aside from my good buddy who owns it, no one else seems to have ever heard of it.

[CFJunkie]

I used to use printed manuals and later used powder mfgr's data from their websites, but as many complain about, the data manual has specific barrel lengths, and they generally use SAAMI recommended seating depths.
If you try to load for a specific jump or have different length barrels in a specific caliber, you're always flying blind.

A lot of people who knock QuickLOAD complain that it is a simulator.
I haven't found that to be a drawback.
Neither does Berger bullets.
The data in their printed manual is from QuickLOAD, but the data in the manual is still limited to a specific barrel length and seating depth.

I've used QuickLOAD for years (back to Windows 7 days) and don't load anything without using it.
I was developed in Germany but is sold in the USA through neconos.com.
It isn't cheap but it has really paid for itself.
I load about 5,200 rounds a year so I think I have gotten my money's worth.
It comes with a ballistic calculator that lets you download your specific load from QuickLOAD and see a variety of graphs for drop, kinetic energy, and such.

I've updated with several upgrades when they add new powders and bullets (you can update the data tables at a nominal cost).

While waiting for the next upgrade disc to be released, I add new powders and new bullets.
They give you that capability and I generally get pretty darn close to what the next upgrade release incorporates.
In addition to allowing to load for a particular barrel length, I regularly adjust for temperature (with the temperature sensitive powders) and always adjust seating depth to compensate for trim length, especially since I hate to trim brass all the time. It also lets you adjust the data for the water capacity of the brass you are using.
I really like the way QuickLOAD lets you tune loads when you have a particular objective (like my fixation on exit time and bullet jump).

[TommyD11730]

I had my 12fv out for the 1st time today. Hope you don't mind me posting in here. This is a good thread with a LOT of info.
Pleasantly surprised with how well it shoots. Best group just under .5moa. Worst just under 1moa. 69 smks with Varget. If I recall about 20 off the lands. Wrote it down somewhere.
As an aside my buddies Savage in 6.5 popped a primer. Immediately after it was very difficult to close the bolt. Also it was having trouble extracting brass. When he tore it down the extractor was misaligned on the bolt face.. it had hopped off the detent ball. Just putting it out there in case someone ever has that problem.

[TommyD11730]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16S37Zkls_tOQSmxzbHkev54rzqjaKkP5/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16TQ1_PRFfASlEJm7GPxMiZIGxfoyR2lE/view?usp=drivesdk
Hope you can see the images.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16S37Zkls_tOQSmxzbHkev54rzqjaKkP5/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16TQ1_PRFfASlEJm7GPxMiZIGxfoyR2lE/view?usp=drivesdk