Model 16 bolt problem

[Fotheringill]

short round-

Not a maybe at all. I learned the lesson the hard way on another rifle a while ago. Especially if you have a dog around.

[Ted_Feasel]

short round-

Not a maybe at all. I learned the lesson the hard way on another rifle a while ago. Especially if you have a dog around.I've been teaching my 5yr old daughter how to put the detent springs, pins and take downs on AR builds and she thinks it's hilarious to see them fly across the shop.. smh.. but shes learning lol:)

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[Fotheringill]

BTW

McmASter Carr or Fastenal. You might pay more for shipping that the product and their minimum count is more than you need.

[Shuz]

I had my wife order me some of the steel balls from Amazon. supposed to be here today! ThANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!

[Dave Hoback]

LOL... ONE of those Si3N4 BB’s I use IS MORE than one needs!

Just shy the hardness of CBN & diamond, a Silicon Nitride BB is not likely to wear out in SEVERAL lifetimes! But yes....one slip and “KERR-Pling”! By-by ball bearing! LOL.

[Robinhood]

If you look at the function of the ball in the system, I don't think anything harder that 30 Rc is needed. 52100 bearing steel is much harder than that at 64 +or- 3 Rc.

[Dave Hoback]

Yes, you are correct Robin. My intention was light hearted humor..., not actually insinuating that near diamond hardness is needed for ANYTHING on a firearm!

Coming from a firearms background and THEN learning custom knife-making later, it’s been easy to see the stark differences in metallurgy between the two. But I have come across a few ONLY involved in knife making...and then learning the metallurgy characteristics surrounding firearms. Most every part on a firearm seems ’bout soft as lead when compared to knife steel! LOL. And dealing with the likes of 4140/50, 8620, 416R, 9310 etc., to the world of High Speed, High Alloy, stainless steels with more Carbon than MOST Carbon Steels & Powder Metals or Particle Metallurgy, can be QUITE an eye opener. Fascinating material.

[Robinhood]

Yes, you are correct Robin. My intention was light hearted humor..., not actually insinuating that near diamond hardness is needed for ANYTHING on a firearm!

Coming from a firearms background and THEN learning custom knife-making later, it’s been easy to see the stark differences in metallurgy between the two. But I have come across a few ONLY involved in knife making...and then learning the metallurgy characteristics surrounding firearms. Most every part on a firearm seems ’bout soft as lead when compared to knife steel! LOL. And dealing with the likes of 4140/50, 8620, 416R, 9310 etc., to the world of High Speed, High Alloy, stainless steels with more Carbon than MOST Carbon Steels & Powder Metals or Particle Metallurgy, can be QUITE an eye opener. Fascinating material.

Its all in the mix of elements and heat treat. I didn't know you worked on guns and knives!

[Dave Hoback]

Its all in the mix of elements and heat treat. I didn't know you worked on guns and knives!

That is exactly it Robin.

Yes..I’ve worked with firearms most of my life now.. I started knifemaking about 7 years ago.., before my accident. But it became something more within the last 5 years. Although I have a working knowledge of forging, all my knives are made via stock removal. I would love to be able to forge again, but it’s simply not possible with one arm/hand(for me). I’m sure someone, at sometime has done it, LOL!

[Shuz]

Well, I replaced the stock 1/8" ball with a 9/64" ball and it didn't correct the problem. I suppose the problem now lies with the extractor piece itself. Perhaps it is not long enuf!?
At a match today, 80 percent of the time when I opened the bolt to extract the fired cartridge, the spent cartridge just lays there in the action. It didn't seem to matter if I operated the bolt smartly or took my sweet old time.
What do you all suggest I do next?

[Robinhood]

Is the bolt head face clean? Is the ejector plunger working? It should stand proud of the bolt face and move freely when depressed and released. Using a magnifying glass, inspect the extractor for damage. Remove it and look it over well on the side that goes around the rim of the case. If not, get sharpshooter involved.

[Dave Hoback]

Agree with Robin. Seems like it’s really pointing at the ejector as the problem. If the case comes back with the bolt, that would say the extractor is doing it’s thing. But if the ejector or spring is weak/damaged, that is exactly the outcome....case just lays dead at the back of the action. We all assumed you already looked the ejector over well. If it’s not that, unfortunately you are at “take it to a gunsmith” time. Once again, something which many of us could fix with a little look-see. But diagnosing a problem via “Interweb” talk becomes very difficult after exhausting the Usual Suspects.

[mnbogboy2]

Thanks for posting the video link. I should be able to do that once I get the 9/64th ball. A guy would think that if he replaced the original extractor and ball with a stock ball, spring, and extractor from Savage, he'll prolly eventually experience the same problem over again!?

When you replaced the ball, did you replace the extractor at the same time? Your earlier statement about it happening again hit home. I had one that only would last 50-100 rounds while others last a 1000. Is this a factory 250 Savage or a rebarrel?
Robinhood & Dave and Texas10 all have gone down this path as well as most multiple savage owners.
It's not always trial & error diagnosing these problems.
1. Usually it is the extractor itself. The .140 ball makes them work better. I always change both first unless other obvious problems are observed.
2. Always check ejector operation and spring "feel". A weak ejector spring will also cause drops. Without having a comparison "feel" this might be difficult for someone new to the game.
When in doubt change out the ejector spring. You could change ejector at the same time but some of the factory ejectors have been made wrong lately with the cross pin notch cut too wide and when fully extended the notch actually comes out too far and catches on the bolt head during compression.
3. Rebarreled and even some new savages have sharp machine edges on the bolt lug abutment and bolt raceways.
These often create drag & wedding on the case during extraction and are another cause of "dropped" cases. The barrel must be removed to "smooth" out this problem.
4. There are custom ejector/extractor kits out there for the tough cookies. I believe Gun Shack may have one and SSS may also provide one.
My own modifications to the extractor ball socket with a dremmel have helped on several "tough cookies" moving the extractor in a couple of thousandth to catch the case rim better. I have also made a couple of custom ejector to aid with that little extra pressure you need on the case when it is at its extreme angle before it clears the reciever. Shorter cases like .223 and even the Creedmoors are the most troublesome. Your 250 Savage would fall in that category.
5. As Texas10 mentioned, when all else fails remove the ejector and its spring and pick them off the bolt. I built a couple of single shots for my granddaughters in 221 fireball and 223 and removed the ejectors. It sure beats "fishing" them out of the action.
That's my .02 on the frustrations of extraction/ejection.
Randy

[Shuz]

I contacted Savage and they are sending me a new extractor,ball and spring. The ejector seems to be working properly. No binding that I can detect.

[Shuz]

Savage sent me a new extractor, 1/8" ball, and a new spring. I installed the new spring and extractor with a 9/64" ball, and everything is working fine now. Thanks for all the help!

[Robinhood]

Great news and props to MNbogboy for bringing it home.

[Dave Hoback]

Good stuff!

[mnbogboy2]

Great news and props to MNbogboy for bringing it home.

I can't take credit, it is teamwork and input from all of us.