350 Legend Cartridge

[sharpshooter]

No....they are not. It might say that on paper with SAAMI specs, but I will GUARANTEE if you measure and slug bores in any current production handgun, they are not the same.

[J.Baker]

Picked up two different types of Winchester factory ammo at the gun show yesterday, the 150gr Extreme Point and the 180gr Power Point. The 150gr bullets measure 0.350" and the loaded case mouth diameter is 0.376". The 180gr bullets measure 0.352" and the loaded case mouth diameter is 0.377".

[J.Baker]

Looks like PT&G has a custom reamer now available for wanting a .350 Legend that can shoot the more plentiful .358 bullets. For copyright/tradename reasons they had to call this quasi-wildcat the .358-AR rather than the .358 Legend.

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/18931-358-ar-chamber-reamer.html


Here's a video of a guy that build one up on an Axis using a Black Hole Weaponry .358" caliber 1-11" twist barrel chambered with this reamer. As you'll see, going this route with the larger bore diameter and slightly different chamber cut the accuracy goes to hell with factory ammo using .355" bullets. As such, pick your poison - factory loads or handloads as you aren't going to be able to have it both ways with .358" bullets.


https://youtu.be/S0kX2ADI15s

[Dave Hoback]

To me, it’s a bit* more powerful 30 Carbine.

Its ok..But it’s not creating anything new! Just a slightly different way of doing the same thing. But if you are interested, go for it! There are certainly worse cartridges. Just believe there are much better.

[J.Baker]

To me, it’s a bit* more powerful 30 Carbine.

Its ok..But it’s not creating anything new! Just a slightly different way of doing the same thing. But if you are interested, go for it! There are certainly worse cartridges. Just believe there are much better.

Lots of better cartridges, but most of them aren't legal for deer hunting in many of the midwest states so it serves a purpose - especially for those who don't want to build a custom, don't reload, and/or don't want a gun that kills from both ends when you pull the trigger. Also, most of the legal straight wall cartridges are rimmed and won't feed worth a hoot in a bolt gun so you're limited to lever guns which don't typically offer the same level of accuracy.

I already have my .375 Win that I've hunted with the past few years which is plenty accurate and does the job out to 100 yards give or take so I'm not really in the market myself. I'm just putting the info out there for those who may be interested so they can make a more informed decision on whether or not it will suit their needs. Not everyone cares if it's the fastest or flattest shooting option out there or delivers the most energy on target, they just want something that will reliably get the job done without breaking the bank. I see it as a great cartridge option for young hunters and women who don't want to deal with a lot of recoil, and in terms of ballistics it's a noticeable improvement over it's closest standardized alternative that's readily available in off-the-shelf rifles, the .357 Magnum. Definitely worlds better than any slug gun as well.

If it proves to perform good on deer at reasonable distances (which from what I've seen/read thus far it seems to do) it will be popular here in the straight wall states, but I don't see it ever being a big seller anywhere else. Talking to a few local dealers they've been selling the crap out of them around here so clearly not everyone shares your view.

[Dave Hoback]

Lots of better cartridges, but most of them aren't legal for deer hunting in many of the midwest states so it serves a purpose - especially for those who don't want to build a custom, don't reload, and/or don't want a gun that kills from both ends when you pull the trigger.


Hmm, so for people who don’t reload & under ammunition laws that need an intermediate power, straight wall case, Rimless cartridge for hunting and don’t want to build anything.

Hmm, seems like about as small group of people as the Transvestite community... And the country is catering to that tiny group of people! So why not this one I guess..LOL!:becky::becky:

[J.Baker]

Hmm, so for people who don’t reload & under ammunition laws that need an intermediate power, straight wall case, Rimless cartridge for hunting and don’t want to build anything.

Hmm, seems like about as small group of people as the Transvestite community... And the country is catering to that tiny group of people! So why not this one I guess..LOL!:becky::becky:

Well Dave, it's nice to see you have no problem belittling all those deer hunters in the states of Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Ohio who fall under such cartridge restrictions and to whom such a cartridge might appeal to - simply because you personally aren't impressed by it.

[Dave Hoback]

Wasn’t belittling any hunters Jim. I apologize it seemed like that to you. Was simply making a political joke. I don’t have any problem with any caliber. Just don’t think there is anything “new” to discover.

Seems s every other week another fancy this case, or “ultra efficient” that cartridge comes out. But it’s really just rehashing the same stuff in a slightly different way and giving it a fancy name. I’m just not a “fan boy”.

I do apologize though you were offended. I really didn’t mean that the way you it seemed to you.

[BB68]

Hmm, so for people who don’t reload & under ammunition laws that need an intermediate power, straight wall case, Rimless cartridge for hunting and don’t want to build anything.

Hmm, seems like about as small group of people as the Transvestite community... And the country is catering to that tiny group of people! So why not this one I guess..LOL!:becky::becky:

eat poop

[J.Baker]

Wasn’t belittling any hunters Jim. I apologize it seemed like that to you. Was simply making a political joke. I don’t have any problem with any caliber. Just don’t think there is anything “new” to discover.

Seems s every other week another fancy this case, or “ultra efficient” that cartridge comes out. But it’s really just rehashing the same stuff in a slightly different way and giving it a fancy name. I’m just not a “fan boy”.

I do apologize though you were offended. I really didn’t mean that the way you it seemed to you.

I was just razzing you a little as well in return.

I don't however see any comparison between the .30 carbine and the .350 Legend. For starters, the .30 Carbine wouldn't be legal in any of these states because it doesn't meet the .35 caliber restriction. Secondly, who's building guns today chambered for the .30 Carbine and what rifle has it ever been offered in other than the M1 Carbine of the WWII era? I sure can't think of any off the top of my head.

Despite Winchester's feeble marketing team trying to make it sound more awesome and appealing than it really is by making extremely odd comparisons and bold claims that hold little water, the fact remains this cartridge was designed to serve one purpose and one purpose only. It wasn't designed to light the world on fire, nor was it designed to outperform an existing cartridge. What it was designed for was to meet the specific requirements of the hunting regulations in the aforementioned states that don't allow the use of more popular and well established bottleneck centerfire cartridges. That's it, plain and simple. And to that end they succeeded and the cartridge does just that.

Are there other cartridge that would be legal in these states "better"? That really depends on your definition of "better" and what criteria you're using to make that determination.

Does a .450 Bushmaster offer a similar trajectory and more energy on target? Sure - but at the cost of increased recoil and feeding issues (ask anyone who's purchased a Savage bolt gun in .450 Bushmaster how it feeds from the magazine).

What about the .50 Beowolf you ask? A great cartridge, but far as I know the only off-the-shelf way to shoot it is on the AR platform and a lot of people don't want to hunt with or simply don't like the ergo's of AR's. Ammo is also an issue as you're not going to find it sitting on most dealers shelves and there's only a couple boutique ammunition manufactures that make it.

.45-70? Great round and no issue with ammo availability, but extreme overkill for whitetail deer and more recoil than many people would like - especially in fairly light lever guns. Handloaders can load it down to address the recoil issue to a great extent, but then the ballistic advantages that it offers go out the window.

.444 Marlin? Pretty much the same situation as the .45-70, but with ammo and guns being less abundant.

.450 Marlin? Same as .444 Marlin

.375 Winchester? Obsolete with very limited bullet selection, and all but necessitates loading your own these days since Winchester only does a small run of their one load once in a blue moon.

.38-55? Great classic cartridge that is plenty accurate, and the ammo availability is much better than that of it's younger cousin (.375 Win), but it's still fairly obscure in this day and age and finding ammo on a local dealers shelf is a rarity. Most factory ammo is also downloaded to be safe in older guns which hurts down range ballistics.

.357 Magnum? Ammo and new gun availability is good, but it's pretty much limited in reach to 100 yards before it starts dropping like a brick and bullet expansion starts to be a concern. Very popular here in Ohio in lever guns for deer hunting, but have heard a lot of "walking wounded" stories as well.

.44 Magnum? Probably the best option out there prior to the .350 Legend coming on scene. Ammo and gun availability isn't an issue, though ammo can be a bit pricey.


So yeah, the .350 Legend fills a void - albeit a small one. If Winchester hadn't been so overly concerned with it working in AR15's it could have been a lot better, but it is what it is and it does what it needs to do.



I think where you and many others get hung up on with this new cartridge is that you're solely looking at it from the perspective of your own personal preferences. That's fine, but you can't simply ignore the fact that not everyone has the same needs and preferences as you do. A lot of folks don't reload so availability of factory ammo is a must (a big part of why the 6.5 Creedmoor is as popular as it is). A lot of folks don't like being beaten to death by the recoil of the bigger cartridges that would offer better terminal performance. A lot of people don't need a hyper velocity super efficient cartridge loaded with high B.C. bullets because all of their shooting is going to be inside of 200 yards. Maybe some people want something that offers better accuracy than most lever guns can offer - which for many of the rounds mentioned above is the only type of rifle they're offered in.

For folks like those the .350 Legend is a great option.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh I get it for sure. Honestly I’m not hung up on anything. Lik I said, I don’t dislike any cartridge. Even the ones I see no point in. And I do get there has to be a niche market. This is where text gets in the way. People think they “hear” some kind of attitude inflection, when there is none. LOL! These cartridges don’t bother me in any way. I would wager though that most people are interested in it because it’s NEW, not because they are in the small group that could possibly benefit.


Thank you you for sharing that Jim. A lot of good info in your post. And a good lesson is wisdom.

[Robinhood]

It is getting crazy like that. I mean you tell somebody their idea is stupid and the next thing you know they are insulted. People read way to much inflection into things.

[cowboybart]

Some of us still have a sense of humor. I smirked when I read the post :becky::becky::becky::becky:.
I have the 357 AR only because I am a 35 cal slut and wanted something that the next guy didn't have. Now that the Legend is out, I have to explain my round to the ignorant

My state lets you hunt with any centerfire as long as it in not a machine gun. I didn't build mine to hunt with, it is a p/u gun that will dispatch most things I come across.

[DeltaPapa]

I have requested a new 110 Hog Hunter in .350 Legend to review and hope to receive it in the next week or so with any luck (want to have the review up by Nov 1st if possible since firearms season opens mid-November in a couple states)...
Anxiously awaiting your review...

[GaCop]

Anxiously awaiting your review...
Same here!

[J.Baker]

Just finally got the rifle in late last week - so much for getting my article out before firearm season opened in Iowa, Illinois and Michigan.

We did slug the barrel though and the bore groove diameter on the Savage barrels is .355" (9mm).

[DeltaPapa]

I got tired of waiting for Winchester to ship the XPR SR in 350 Legend so I placed an order today for a 110 Hog Hunter in 350 Legend.
Silencerco just announced the Omega 36M so I'll be ordering one of those as well as soon as my dealer gets one.

[Orr89rocz]

They should have used .357 diameter pistol bullets and basically created a larger 357 mag much like the 450 bushmaster is a longer 454 casull/460 smith

[DeltaPapa]

I sent an inquirey to Winchester ammo today asking about the availablity of their Super Suppressed ammo for the 350 Legend. They advised it would be January.

[gregw72]

What bottom metal and mag did you use? I am looking to take a top bolt release Model 10 and put on an X-Caliper barrel and was wondering how to feed the sucker