Same idea..but using Titanium & Tungsten Carbide. (Pics)

[JeepsAndGuns]

JeepsAndGuns noted earlier in the other thread that he thought Fred replaced the spring on his rifle when he T&T'd it, but it's still the factory spring. What Fred does is measure the initial rate, and if it's higher than it should be he essentially takes the O.D. down until it measures the spec he wants it to (pounds per one inch of compression). That's why the spring wire looks flat rather than round.

I was not aware of this. No one has ever explained it. I just knew it looked different and assumed it was a new spring, had no idea it was the original one that was modded. Good to know.

[Robinhood]

As much as Savage gets wrong, one thing they did get right was the FP spring rate. The problem is their FP springs can vary by as much as 2-lbs. JeepsAndGuns noted earlier in the other thread that he thought Fred replaced the spring on his rifle when he T&T'd it, but it's still the factory spring. What Fred does is measure the initial rate, and if it's higher than it should be he essentially takes the O.D. down until it measures the spec he wants it to (pounds per one inch of compression). That's why the spring wire looks flat rather than round.

I never included that information during discussion because I thought that was a protected secret. This is primarily why the lift on the ones I have worked on is so light. I read that some guys believe that the savage firing pin is over cocked. It is not. It may be over sprung though. The first one I tried to grind I went overboard. I use a belt sander now with a fixture to keep it uniform. I also make the cocking piece so there is no pin tilt. I got the idea from the cocking piece with the indicator but Fred has a mod to fix that also.

[txrob5150]

all i can say as someone new to these boards it is impressive the knowledge on here. thank you guys for being involved and posting so much info.

One day, I hope i get to the point where I actually understand it all......:cool:

[Dave Hoback]

I have seen that and it is a good read. However I meant specifically comparing the OP's tungsten insert and Silicone Nitride ball bearing to the 38spl and regular ball bearing. I was just curious if there was a noticeable difference going from the 38spl case and the OP's hard metal version.

I indicated in the beginning, not likely to see any discernible increase. Just something I’ve wanted to do. Using the hardest BB & opposing surface(Si3N4 & Tungsten), providing “optimal” conditions, is what I was after.

Ill say, these would not be profitable to sell anyway. Besides the much higher cost of the materials, machining costs & time are WAY above normal. On another site I posted this, I made a comment about Ti being “nice” to machine, but need to be careful of the heat generated and fire. I guess I’m not very good at sarcasm. LOL! An adoring fan in California couldn’t wait to tell me no REAL machinist ever said Titanium was nice to machine. Ugh... Sarcasm aside, I had to explain I’m not a real machinist...just a one armed cripple that loves doing this stuff. LOL. But he’s the owner operator of AR15barrels... so I’m glad he’s got it all figured out. I sure don’t!


This has been great though. Thank you Jim & Robin for all the info. Knew some of it...DIDN’T know ALOT of it! And I LOVE learning new things!

[jkv45]

What is the disadvantage of using a washer between the base of the BAS and the bolt to offset the additional thickness of the pieces instead of cutting it?

Thanks.

[Dave Hoback]

What is the disadvantage of using a washer between the base of the BAS and the bolt to offset the additional thickness of the pieces instead of cutting it?

Thanks.

Not sure I follow. What washer are you referring to? The BAS is the screw. (BAS = Bolt Assembly Screw). What other screw is the reference? The BAS must be shortened, otherwise the extra length of the plate & BB would preload the firing pin spring WAY to much! Possibly even bind the coils.

[mnbogboy2]

Not sure I follow. What washer are you referring to? The BAS is the screw. (BAS = Bolt Assembly Screw). What other screw is the reference? The BAS must be shortened, otherwise the extra length of the plate & BB would preload the firing pin spring WAY to much! Possibly even bind the coils.

Dave, some have used a washer under the stock bas screw to move it back to avoid machining the screw.

[jkv45]

Dave, some have used a washer under the stock bas screw to move it back to avoid machining the screw.

Yes - a washer to move the BAS back the thickness of the pieces that were added internally.

[Robinhood]

Here is an example of a washer behind the BAS. A "Shnazzy" version. https://sdthumbs.ui-static.net/t/maeu/1lhQm-4ZNbUn_vZ2ZPaR/B79l27SAFfEKo0FNVwABag.jpg?h=-OOgxHmfScfMIVAeuIIedg&e=1572735600&cmd=scale&width=1000&height=700

[Dave Hoback]

Ok, yes...I got ya. Was just tripped up on the wording, sorry. I’ve seen that in the PTG Kit. It’s the “lazy” way. No benefit either way. I just don’t like adding things that don’t need to be there.

[Robinhood]

Ok, yes...I got ya. Was just tripped up on the wording, sorry. I’ve seen that in the PTG Kit. It’s the “lazy” way. No benefit either way. I just don’t like adding things that don’t need to be there.

Like Tungsten plugs in the BAS?

THE PTG kit does not have a spacer. It has a flat piece on top of the Sleave and a pointed screw in the BAS.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpacifictoolandgauge.com%2F4204-thickbox_default%2Fnat-lambeth-inspired-savage-bolt-accessory-kit-w-o-handle.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[Dave Hoback]

LOL! You know what I meant Robin. But nice “get” on me, haha.

Sorry..let me expound. I meant EXTRA parts on the outside that don’t need to be there except for not wanting to complete a task. As shortening the bolt. But I’ll say, the one you showed is nice. Can’t even see the spacer! Did you do that?

[Robinhood]

LOL! You know what I meant Robin. But nice “get” on me, haha.

Sorry..let me expound. I meant EXTRA parts on the outside that don’t need to be there except for not wanting to complete a task. As shortening the bolt. But I’ll say, the one you showed is nice. Can’t even see the spacer! Did you do that?


:p What do you think?

[Dave Hoback]

Very nice machining. Oh wait.... is that the same one with the swept back bolt you made?

I agree with what you said... “Shnazzy”! Can’t see any separation between the bolt & washer. Way outta my league! I make functional parts with “ok” machining finish. But my machining is novice compared to that!

In in other words.. I like it. Great stuff my friend.

[Robinhood]

LOL Dave, You are more full of it than me.

It was just a different approach. Tried several versions including one like the PT&G and then a version with a rolling ball end set screw. Nothing like the exotic metals you use though. The 4140 is close to 30 RC and the balls are like 60 .
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41qR2jBOd%2BL._SL500_AA2 80_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[jkv45]

LOL Dave, You are more full of it than me.

It was just a different approach. Tried several versions including one like the PT&G and then a version with a rolling ball end set screw. Nothing like the exotic metals you use though. The 4140 is close to 30 RC and the balls are like 60 .
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41qR2jBOd%2BL._SL500_AA2 80_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Is it worth drilling and tapping the .357 case to use a set screws with a ball that turns like the one above?

[Robinhood]

Is it worth drilling and tapping the .357 case to use a set screws with a ball that turns like the one above?

Sorry JKV45, The BAS is drilled and tapped(this is a 6mm screw) in a collet, in the lathe. It could probably be done a couple of ways but it must be on center and concentric! The flat surface is machined out of round stock to fit in the sleeve like the case does . It is kind of reverse from the pistol case setup. The stack height is very low, something like 3/32 or less. If you machine the screw back it can even be a negative number. Be careful with shortening the whole system too much. You don't want the cocking pin in the sleeves entry slot.

[jkv45]

Sorry JKV45, The BAS is drilled and tapped(this is a 6mm screw) in a collet, in the lathe. It could probably be done a couple of ways but it must be on center and concentric! The flat surface is machined out of round stock to fit in the sleeve like the case does . It is kind of reverse from the pistol case setup. The stack height is very low, something like 3/32 or less. If you machine the screw back it can even be a negative number. Be careful with shortening the whole system too much. You don't want the cocking pin in the sleeves entry slot.
Thanks.

[Dave Hoback]

LOL Dave, You are more full of it than me.

Oh...well I apologize. I’m not purposefully trying to be full of anything. Sorry :apologetic:

[GrenGuy]

When I added My 38 spcl & ball, the added length was .079”. I took that amount off the back of the cocking sleeve. It works fine.

Did I do wrong ?