Dave Hoback
06-03-2020, 12:31 PM
As I’m sure many others here, I have invested a great deal of time in researching scope mounting. We have come quite a ways...but some things aren’t as old as we might think.
To the point, I’m sure 90% of us here are using Picatinny mounts & rings over the older Weaver & much older Leupold “Standard” styles. (Heaven knows why the last 10% have not stepped into THIS century!) But I’ll give a little lapse of them. The Leupold Standard, are actually attributed to John Redfield, who designed what he called the Jr. & Sr. Rotary Dovetail mounts during WW1. These were the mounts used on 1903 Springfield sniper rifle through WW2, the Korean War & even used in Vietnam. And the mounts themselves became super popular in the 50’s. Of course they continue being sold today under Redfeild, Leupold(now called Standard bases & rings), as well as some other companies. The Weaver rail was designed in 70’s as a Two-Piece base/ring kit and gained some following throughout the following decades. But what we know today as the vastly superior design and used by 100% of professional rifle marksmen, is the Picatinny or Mil-Std-1913 Rail. It came into being in 1995 after Picatinny Arsenal was given the task of standardizing in 1992. And in fact, the rail has ties to work done by the A.R.M.S. Company in the early 1980’s, most notably Otto Repa who standardized the Weaver design.
Now here we are in 2020, and we are used to paying $150...$200...even $300 or more for scope mounting. Even a good set of rings are over $100. Of course China has been flooding our markets with cast, low metal(pot metal or soda can Aluminum) mounts & rings for at least 20 years. But in recent years I’ve noticed something. I’ve been seeing some good mounting products for under $100. Of course we aren’t used to this. We see a mount for $80 and instantly think(well, it’s ok...but cheap! I wouldn’t risk my life!” Good words to live by, no doubt. Although I think much of what we are starting to see is the result of normal human fair pricing standards. In the beginning of a product’s life, we pay a high price for top machining & the R&D that went into it. But over time, we shouldn’t be paying for R&D anymore. And developments in CNC machining have drastically improved. So, a company that is selling a mount today for $180, the same they did when first released, is ripping off the consumer. Yet it goes unnoticed. We don’t even think about it, because we have come to think of high dollar mounting as being able to “Stake our lives on”! We are Conditioned to this. (The same way we wear our masks & are still staying inside like good boys & girls). Conditioning! Hmm...well, it’s something I’ve been researching for several years. Besides my knowledge of mounting, I’ve also studied Metallurgy for about 8 years. I know a great deal of steels & Aluminum used in the firearms industry. To mounting systems for this conversation, I am referring to Aluminum Billet 6061 & 7075...both in the T6 heat treat. I can generally tell the difference between the two on feel. As I am building a new AR15 from one of the 80% lowers I’ve machined, I have decided to go with a 1-4x scope. Naturally I needed a forward or Cantilever scope mount. I have been a big fan of 1-piece scope mounts for many years. I use an American Defense Recon-S mount on my Savage bench gun. I’ve used various mounts on ARs through the years. All but one being expensive. However I wanted to try something different. I’m trying an inexpensive mount this time. But not CHEAP. I set out doing what I do best....finding the BEST for the LEAST. And I came across this mount below. From research, I’ve found this used by dozens & dozens of people and not having a single bad review. There are videos on YouTube of it mounted on an AR10 with many hundreds & even over 1000 308 rounds. It’s surviving all tests so far with flying colors. No movement, return to zero, etc. Just as well as much more expensive & even top shelf mounts! I’ve found three companies selling it, ADE, SonicKing which are the ones used in the videos & the one I found made by Fidragon. This mount was released in 2019 and was initially sold for $89 I believe. But it quickly came down to $59, and has been sold at various prices. The Fidragon unit I purchased was the least expensive, at $37 from Amazon. What I can tell you is that regardless of the name on it, these are all the same mount from one source. It is CNC machined very well, and regardless of what you may believe, it is indeed made of 7075-T6 Aluminum. I know the difference. And I can’t believe it myself. But then I realize it’s simply what I have been taught my whole life! What I have been Conditioned to! “Oh, it can’t be any good!” And yet, it is! “It must be made of POT metal or CAST!” But it’s not. This is not only a properly machined 1-piece mount using 7075-T6 Aluminum, but it uses something not seen in many much more $$ mounts... Recoil Lugs. Machined in the bottom and fitting perfectly in the Picatinny rails. Even how it was packaged was impressive.
Ill leave you with this. If you think something like a scope mount must cost $150 or more to be high quality remember this: We as consumers should NOT be paying for R&D from 20 years ago. Also, go look at the price of new 6061-T6 & 7075-T6 Billet. Even the small quantities that someone like me buys, as a machinist, are quite affordable. But when purchased as large quantities by huge companies machining & selling virtually millions of rails, mounts & rings every year...the prices are very close to each other and cheap!
https://i.ibb.co/YPWnPnM/EB1-BDA2-B-28-FE-434-A-8-BEC-99915-EAE958-E.jpg (https://ibb.co/tQhjQjt)
https://i.ibb.co/yRHKqNK/91-C7-EEE1-CA3-E-48-AF-990-B-5076-F898-FB75.jpg (https://ibb.co/sP8cqgc)
https://i.ibb.co/FVV2bbK/FBBC29-A9-5-AC2-43-C0-9799-9653-A208-BC5-D.jpg (https://ibb.co/L55mzz8)
https://i.ibb.co/wW9Rd0Z/DAD617-CD-4-D82-425-B-BC1-A-AAB0-E50-A331-F.jpg (https://ibb.co/sw02gmp)
To the point, I’m sure 90% of us here are using Picatinny mounts & rings over the older Weaver & much older Leupold “Standard” styles. (Heaven knows why the last 10% have not stepped into THIS century!) But I’ll give a little lapse of them. The Leupold Standard, are actually attributed to John Redfield, who designed what he called the Jr. & Sr. Rotary Dovetail mounts during WW1. These were the mounts used on 1903 Springfield sniper rifle through WW2, the Korean War & even used in Vietnam. And the mounts themselves became super popular in the 50’s. Of course they continue being sold today under Redfeild, Leupold(now called Standard bases & rings), as well as some other companies. The Weaver rail was designed in 70’s as a Two-Piece base/ring kit and gained some following throughout the following decades. But what we know today as the vastly superior design and used by 100% of professional rifle marksmen, is the Picatinny or Mil-Std-1913 Rail. It came into being in 1995 after Picatinny Arsenal was given the task of standardizing in 1992. And in fact, the rail has ties to work done by the A.R.M.S. Company in the early 1980’s, most notably Otto Repa who standardized the Weaver design.
Now here we are in 2020, and we are used to paying $150...$200...even $300 or more for scope mounting. Even a good set of rings are over $100. Of course China has been flooding our markets with cast, low metal(pot metal or soda can Aluminum) mounts & rings for at least 20 years. But in recent years I’ve noticed something. I’ve been seeing some good mounting products for under $100. Of course we aren’t used to this. We see a mount for $80 and instantly think(well, it’s ok...but cheap! I wouldn’t risk my life!” Good words to live by, no doubt. Although I think much of what we are starting to see is the result of normal human fair pricing standards. In the beginning of a product’s life, we pay a high price for top machining & the R&D that went into it. But over time, we shouldn’t be paying for R&D anymore. And developments in CNC machining have drastically improved. So, a company that is selling a mount today for $180, the same they did when first released, is ripping off the consumer. Yet it goes unnoticed. We don’t even think about it, because we have come to think of high dollar mounting as being able to “Stake our lives on”! We are Conditioned to this. (The same way we wear our masks & are still staying inside like good boys & girls). Conditioning! Hmm...well, it’s something I’ve been researching for several years. Besides my knowledge of mounting, I’ve also studied Metallurgy for about 8 years. I know a great deal of steels & Aluminum used in the firearms industry. To mounting systems for this conversation, I am referring to Aluminum Billet 6061 & 7075...both in the T6 heat treat. I can generally tell the difference between the two on feel. As I am building a new AR15 from one of the 80% lowers I’ve machined, I have decided to go with a 1-4x scope. Naturally I needed a forward or Cantilever scope mount. I have been a big fan of 1-piece scope mounts for many years. I use an American Defense Recon-S mount on my Savage bench gun. I’ve used various mounts on ARs through the years. All but one being expensive. However I wanted to try something different. I’m trying an inexpensive mount this time. But not CHEAP. I set out doing what I do best....finding the BEST for the LEAST. And I came across this mount below. From research, I’ve found this used by dozens & dozens of people and not having a single bad review. There are videos on YouTube of it mounted on an AR10 with many hundreds & even over 1000 308 rounds. It’s surviving all tests so far with flying colors. No movement, return to zero, etc. Just as well as much more expensive & even top shelf mounts! I’ve found three companies selling it, ADE, SonicKing which are the ones used in the videos & the one I found made by Fidragon. This mount was released in 2019 and was initially sold for $89 I believe. But it quickly came down to $59, and has been sold at various prices. The Fidragon unit I purchased was the least expensive, at $37 from Amazon. What I can tell you is that regardless of the name on it, these are all the same mount from one source. It is CNC machined very well, and regardless of what you may believe, it is indeed made of 7075-T6 Aluminum. I know the difference. And I can’t believe it myself. But then I realize it’s simply what I have been taught my whole life! What I have been Conditioned to! “Oh, it can’t be any good!” And yet, it is! “It must be made of POT metal or CAST!” But it’s not. This is not only a properly machined 1-piece mount using 7075-T6 Aluminum, but it uses something not seen in many much more $$ mounts... Recoil Lugs. Machined in the bottom and fitting perfectly in the Picatinny rails. Even how it was packaged was impressive.
Ill leave you with this. If you think something like a scope mount must cost $150 or more to be high quality remember this: We as consumers should NOT be paying for R&D from 20 years ago. Also, go look at the price of new 6061-T6 & 7075-T6 Billet. Even the small quantities that someone like me buys, as a machinist, are quite affordable. But when purchased as large quantities by huge companies machining & selling virtually millions of rails, mounts & rings every year...the prices are very close to each other and cheap!
https://i.ibb.co/YPWnPnM/EB1-BDA2-B-28-FE-434-A-8-BEC-99915-EAE958-E.jpg (https://ibb.co/tQhjQjt)
https://i.ibb.co/yRHKqNK/91-C7-EEE1-CA3-E-48-AF-990-B-5076-F898-FB75.jpg (https://ibb.co/sP8cqgc)
https://i.ibb.co/FVV2bbK/FBBC29-A9-5-AC2-43-C0-9799-9653-A208-BC5-D.jpg (https://ibb.co/L55mzz8)
https://i.ibb.co/wW9Rd0Z/DAD617-CD-4-D82-425-B-BC1-A-AAB0-E50-A331-F.jpg (https://ibb.co/sw02gmp)