RCBS powder measure

[yobuck]

I have never competed in a Benchrest Match. I don't know what it takes to win. I pretty sure a guy with a Choate stock, a 5lb trigger, a Sightmark scope with a pencil barrel rarely wins. Why, because he is going against guys that have moved past the basic stuff and they went with specialized equipment, what it takes to win place or show.

The guy that goes to the range three times a year will not need a Masterclass stock or a Borden Rimrock action. He may not worry about CBTO or accurately weighing charges.

A guy who shoots cases with 115 grains of powder with a cold bore shot to an average of 650 yards 3 times and not much more than that a year may not be privy to what a guy who shoots 70 plus rounds a weekend needs to make his stuff work the way it needs to.

The guy that wins in Fclass and PRS will need something different than the other 3 guys. It is difficult for one who does not compete at a high level to say what is or what isn't important when talking about being successful in their endeavors.

Until a person challenges them and beats them at their game, I don't think they are qualified to say what is and what is not required to be at the top of the game.

I don't have a use for a $70,000 truck, a 3500 + Sq/ft home. I don't need a girlfriend on the side to make me happy. But for whatever reason that stuff tickles one mans fancy more power to him. It is a wonderful free country where at least for 6 more months we can buy and do things the way we like it.

God bless 'Merica
I wonder who created the term (cold bore) anyway?
Is that another test necessary to pass in order to gain entry to a special club?

[Robinhood]

The test is usually played out all and every hunting season.

[charlie b]

I never hunted as a kid so the first time I heard about 'cold bore' issues was when firing artillery. These days the ballistic computers handle any issues with tube conditions, from 'cold' to hot and everything in between. On tanks we had an active alignment system that compensated for barrel changes due to temperature and gravity. Don't know what the latest artillery uses.

PS there is also a difference between a cold bore and a fouled bore. You can have a cold, fouled bore or a cold, clean bore, etc.

[yobuck]

I never hunted as a kid so the first time I heard about 'cold bore' issues was when firing artillery. These days the ballistic computers handle any issues with tube conditions, from 'cold' to hot and everything in between. On tanks we had an active alignment system that compensated for barrel changes due to temperature and gravity. Don't know what the latest artillery uses.

PS there is also a difference between a cold bore and a fouled bore. You can have a cold, fouled bore or a cold, clean bore, etc.
Small bore shooters as a rule only clean the bore when the gun tells them it needs cleaning.
Then they will waste some ammo fouling the bore again before they begin shooting for score.
At least that was the old way, but maybe like many things thoughts on that have changed also.
We always shoot at least a few rounds each fall with the hunting guns for checking the zero and maybe shoot at a distant rock or 2.
Ive been known to do both at the same time.
Then we leave the bore dirty till the season is over.
Of coarse there is a difference in hitting a deer in the vitals at 500 yards with a first shot compared with scoring a 10 on a target.
A gun that wont send the first round at least very close to the point of aim on the first shot shouldnt be being used in the first place.
At 3000 fps and higher with heavy bullets there as a rule wont be much affect from the wind at 5 or 600 yards.
But of coarse tree branches at any longer distance could be another issue, since sight picture and trajectory path dont always match.
For shots longer than that depending on location and conditions, a sighter shot at a nearby object can be a wise move.
Fact is a sighter shot is always a wise move, but a first round miss can be used for that also, usually without it costing any points off your final score.
The rules are what ever works for each individual.

[charlie b]

When I did hunt I would use a fouled bore. When sighting in I would shoot the rifle and do the intitial adjustments. No cleaning. Next week at the range I would shoot one shot and adjust the zero. Then fire a second and third to see where follow up shots would go. No cleaning. Next week I would shoot one shot to verify zero and put away until the hunt.

Muzzle loader was just the opposite. I hunted with a clean barrel so that is how I sighted it in. Shoot, adjust sights, clean. Shoot to check sights, clean. Then I would shoot, reload and shoot to verify where a followup shot would go. Then clean and put it away until the season started.

I don't hunt anymore so I just track where my shots go on paper. Some rifles just don't change much as they are fired. Others change quite a bit. Just have to learn what yours does.

[yobuck]

Well i wouldnt argue about loading procedure having an affect on accuracy. I also wouldnt argue that the procedure i personaly use couldnt be improved upon for that purpose. But over the many years we have been hunting in this manner, lack of accuracy hasent been the reason for our failures when they happen. As a rule it comes down to an avoidable mistake, or lack of a proper education for wind calls.
Now again, a perfect score with more Xs than the others having perfect scores isnt necessary for us to win either, but then life is all about choices.
As for the original topic, fact is i dont really use the Lee scoops myself.
I may well be the only here using a measure that hasent been made in decades, and was my fathers back in the early 50s.
Belding & Mull, made in Phillipsburg Pa. Depending upon the powder, it will throw consistently to a tenth of a grain, which works pretty well for minit of at least the bigger rocks and deer.

[Robinhood]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/pzIAAOSw07JelSAZ/s-l1600.jpg

[Stumpkiller]

I bought my Lyman 55 three years before I was married. I was married in 1980.

Holds to 1/10 grain if I use ball or short-cut powders. Flake & long kernel I throw short into a pan and trickle to desired weight.

[Fuj']

I have never competed in a Benchrest Match. I don't know what it takes to win. I pretty sure a guy with a Choate stock, a 5lb trigger, a Sightmark scope with a pencil barrel rarely wins. Why, because he is going against guys that have moved past the basic stuff and they went with specialized equipment, what it takes to win place or show.


I always like to say.....Beware the old geezer showing up with a rusty pipe
duct taped to a 2x4 !!

I do a lot of testing. In that sense you want to be close as accurate as
your components will allow. My old Ohaus 10-10 has more then served
me well. I did buy a small Peregrine electronic that measures to .00
Drop in one kernal of of R-16 and it jumps to .02 No beam scale can see
that unless you scare yourself into a Promethius !! I do the normal dip,
dump, and trickle on the Ohaus for the bulk of my work. Touchy stuff
for out long, I've been using the Peregrine. The Peregrine is the nut for
weighing bullets and case.

[yobuck]

[QUOTE=Robinhood;476115]
Yep, thats the one. I keep a funnel in the top of mine so that the hopper can hold more powder.
You know what im talking about RH, some of those cases we use can almost empty the thing. lol
Needed some drop tubes custom made also.
I do use an old Lyman 55 on small cases like 223 and pistol cartridges.
Just drop directly into the case with 50 of them in a loading block.
308 and 708 quite often get the same treatment.
It goes pretty quick that way, and when all 50 are done i just take a good look to make sure i didnt miss any.
When you have a few kids (and adults) whacking away at clay birds and pieces of clay birds at 400 yds, it can be a full time job just loading the ammo.

[Mr.Snerdly]

I bought my Lyman 55 three years before I was married. I was married in 1980.

Holds to 1/10 grain if I use ball or short-cut powders. Flake & long kernel I throw short into a pan and trickle to desired weight.

I have reached the conclusion that the Varget and 4064 and similar powders can't be loaded accurately enough with either the RCBS or Lee powder measure. The Lee is closer and usually has a lot more right on the money but there are always a few that are off enough I wouldn't be comfortable with it. I think the Lee would be accurate enough to use on the CFE 223 powder without weighing every charge. Another thing, .1 or .2 difference in a 223 is a lot different than in a 300 Win Magnum. I would think in the big calibers maybe the Lee would be close enough but I don't have anything bigger than a 243.

[sharpshooter]

Bite the bullet and get a Harrels and never look back...

[Ted_Feasel]

I've just ways went for about half grain under and then trickle to the exact point I want.

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[yobuck]

Bite the bullet and get a Harrels and never look back...
So tell us about all the weighing and trickeling you dont do either, especially with one of those. lol

[Robinhood]

Bite the bullet and get a Harrels and never look back...

What took you so long? I have been waiting for this...:)

[Fuj']

Bite the bullet and get a Harrels and never look back...

I have a Culver design Harrels. You still need to trickle. They are close
though. Too me it's like putting more bling on a Harley. It's still going to
drip oil on your living room carpet.....:cool: One of these days, when
I have another major moment of weakness, I want to bolt it up to a
Promethius, stand back, thump my chest, and yell like Tarzan.....

[yobuck]

I have a Culver design Harrels. You still need to trickle. They are close
though. Too me it's like putting more bling on a Harley. It's still going to
drip oil on your living room carpet.....:cool: One of these days, when
I have another major moment of weakness, I want to bolt it up to a
Promethius, stand back, thump my chest, and yell like Tarzan.....
Well first before you do all that, i need to ask a question.
How long has it been since youve taken some ammo loaded to 1/10 or so of a grain, then used match grade bullets without weighing them, and went someplace where you could shoot at small rocks on steep side hills from a bench, at various distances out to say 1000 yds?
And id prefer a direct answer, not one claiming small groups would permit that anyway.
I know they would, but thats not the point of the question.
Next time you go over to Ridgeway, place some clay birds on the berms from say 500 out to the limit of 1000 yds. No target, just the clay birds, with loads like ive described. Of coarse wind is wind, regardless of the type target, so lets not get into that with this.
Id venture to say you have never tried it without going through all the very important loading steps people talk about but in fact not everybody does.
Remember, you only need to hit the rock or clay bird one time, and like a deer they rarely run off if you miss. lol

[sharpshooter]

I gave up trickling a long time a go, once I found a good measure. 4064 does not cut well in any measure, so I avoid it when I can. Varget doesn't cut good as other powders unless you know right technique. When you can get e.s. of a single digit, tricking is a waste of time that is better spent on concentricity.

[Ted_Feasel]

I gave up trickling a long time a go, once I found a good measure. 4064 does not cut well in any measure, so I avoid it when I can. Varget doesn't cut good as other powders unless you know right technique. When you can get e.s. of a single digit, tricking is a waste of time that is better spent on concentricity.I'm pretty content with my methods I think. The rounds I load that use ball or flake i will throw with my rcbs (with handgun insert) and hornady with rifle insert, then stick powders i hand dip and trickle , i trickle ball and flake also , weigh every charge on digitals that are good to .05 and double check every charge on ohaus. I think i got lucky with the digital because they are always accurate and you know right away if they have floated because when you set the empty pan they will be .01 off instead off 000.00 , i have used them enough that I have confidence in them

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[yobuck]

I gave up trickling a long time a go, once I found a good measure. 4064 does not cut well in any measure, so I avoid it when I can. Varget doesn't cut good as other powders unless you know right technique. When you can get e.s. of a single digit, tricking is a waste of time that is better spent on concentricity.
First time ive heard the word (concentricity) used here far as i can recall.
Im just assuming that means that straight loads trump loads with precise powder charges.
And of coarse the logical question will be, why not both?
But for those not having the type dies that will produce perfectly straight loads, is there a solution that might at least help?
I always partially seat the bullet, then rotate the case and seat some more.
It might be another mind over matter thing also, but it does seem to help.
I have a shooter friend who checks the runout, marks the high spot on the case head, then places that in the same place each time when he puts it into the gun.
But regardless, it opens up the discussion to more than just precise powder charges.