Neck sizing vs full length

[charlie b]

It would be nice for the average person if a comparison was done by some of the better shooter reloaders.

Take a good setup and change one thing at a time to see how much of a difference there is in accuracy. For example, take a bunch of virgin brass and divide it into batches of 10 or 20. One batch ream the flash holes and prep the primer pockets. Another is weight sorted. etc.

After firing process all the brass the same, weight sort, ream flash holes, etc. Take a portion and neck size and another FL size in std factory die and FL size in custom die. Another series of the same but anneal the cases before sizing.

Then go back and anneal all of them and size the way you normally do. Load up some with BR primers and some with std primers. Another batch with powder charges thrown from a measure, some measured with a cheap digital scale and others with your best scale.

It would be a lot of work and money to do this so I suspect no one would. But, some of you may have documented some of the changes over the years. What were the ones that made the most difference in group sizes?

[Ted_Feasel]

It would be nice for the average person if a comparison was done by some of the better shooter reloaders.

Take a good setup and change one thing at a time to see how much of a difference there is in accuracy. For example, take a bunch of virgin brass and divide it into batches of 10 or 20. One batch ream the flash holes and prep the primer pockets. Another is weight sorted. etc.

After firing process all the brass the same, weight sort, ream flash holes, etc. Take a portion and neck size and another FL size in std factory die and FL size in custom die. Another series of the same but anneal the cases before sizing.

Then go back and anneal all of them and size the way you normally do. Load up some with BR primers and some with std primers. Another batch with powder charges thrown from a measure, some measured with a cheap digital scale and others with your best scale.

It would be a lot of work and money to do this so I suspect no one would. But, some of you may have documented some of the changes over the years. What were the ones that made the most difference in group sizes?I have done exactly that:)

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[CFJunkie]

I don't know if I would be considered among the good shooters and reloaders, but I was wondering about this myself.

For the last two weeks, I reloaded loads using neck sizing instead of full sizing for my .223 FV with the Oryx chassis using 69 and 77 grain Sierra SMKs and TMKs.
I have shot those loads for many months using full sizing so I figured if I compared the averages of the most recent loads, I might seem some difference.

For the two most recent sessions with full sized brass and with neck sized brass, I loaded for the identical exit times with the same powder and shot 5-Round Groups.
Full Sized
Bullet ------# Grps ---- Average
69 SMK ------- 7 ------- 0.290
69 TMK ------- 7 ------- 0.295
77 SMK ------- 8 ------- 0.263
77 TMK ------- 8 ------- 0.294

Neck Sized
Bullet ------# Grps ---- Average
69 SMK ------- 8 ------- 0.279
69 TMK ------- 8 ------- 0.289
77 SMK ------- 8 ------- 0.296
77 TMK ------- 8 ------- 0.309

Combined (all bullets):
Full Sized ----- 30 ------ 0.285
Neck Sized ---- 32 ------ 0.293

One or two groups that were outside the norm would easily account for that difference is such a small sample.
Considering the standard deviations (especially shooter induced variations), were on the order of 0.042 and 0.057 for the two samples, a difference of 0.008 in the average between full sized and neck sized would force me to conclude that there is no measurable difference statistically.

[charlie b]

I have done exactly that:)

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Then printing up a table of differences in group size for each variable would be great!

[mikeinco]

yes POORLY WORDED
"Sizing the neck too much, as in std full length reloading dies, can cause 'early' failure."
Only if you anneal regularly. Poorly worded? LOL

WHAT IS TOO MUCH "NECK SIZING" IN A FL DIE.??????

[Ted_Feasel]

I have done exactly that:)

Sent from my SM-N975U using TapatalkI will attempt to sift through all the data I've written down and put together some. I did beta testing for a new app called RADD and I've been slowly transferring all my written data to it. I think the app is 99 cents , I got it free for being a beta tester but it is a really good app, it has categories that I never dreamed of tracking. It has virtually everything about your load data and groups.. pretty nice app.

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[Ted_Feasel]

I would consider myself substantially above average in accuracy when bench or prone shooting, some of the other types of competitions, I have no idea how good or bad I would be. Ive been curious to join the prs matches here and see how I would do but I don't have any rifle at this point that I feel would be well suited for that.
My heaviest bolt action is almost 18lb and my lightest is around 13lb..
I would think for prs you may want lighter but im not sure

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[Robinhood]

zero run out.

[mikeinco]

yot have to move, with all your gear from one shooting point(area) to the next...over and over..for the whole match.
i cannot shoot weak hand( no functioning left eye)...so i am out on most of this stuff.


I would consider myself substantially above average in accuracy when bench or prone shooting, some of the other types of competitions, I have no idea how good or bad I would be. Ive been curious to join the prs matches here and see how I would do but I don't have any rifle at this point that I feel would be well suited for that.
My heaviest bolt action is almost 18lb and my lightest is around 13lb..
I would think for prs you may want lighter but im not sure

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[mikeinco]

the biggest single variable is WHAT IS THE SHOOTING SYSTEM CAPABLE OF ????
AVERAGE BULLETS
SAVAGE BOLT ACTION with std bbl ??
what brass ammealed every time...if not it gets harder and neck tension changes with every shot.
how is powder measured
way to many variable to say neck or full is a plus or minus...

I don't know if I would be considered among the good shooters and reloaders, but I was wondering about this myself.

For the last two weeks, I reloaded loads using neck sizing instead of full sizing for my .223 FV with the Oryx chassis using 69 and 77 grain Sierra SMKs and TMKs.
I have shot those loads for many months using full sizing so I figured if I compared the averages of the most recent loads, I might seem some difference.

For the two most recent sessions with full sized brass and with neck sized brass, I loaded for the identical exit times with the same powder and shot 5-Round Groups.
Full Sized
Bullet ------# Grps ---- Average
69 SMK ------- 7 ------- 0.290
69 TMK ------- 7 ------- 0.295
77 SMK ------- 8 ------- 0.263
77 TMK ------- 8 ------- 0.294

Neck Sized
Bullet ------# Grps ---- Average
69 SMK ------- 8 ------- 0.279
69 TMK ------- 8 ------- 0.289
77 SMK ------- 8 ------- 0.296
77 TMK ------- 8 ------- 0.309

Combined (all bullets):
Full Sized ----- 30 ------ 0.285
Neck Sized ---- 32 ------ 0.293

One or two groups that were outside the norm would easily account for that difference is such a small sample.
Considering the standard deviations (especially shooter induced variations), were on the order of 0.042 and 0.057 for the two samples, a difference of 0.008 in the average between full sized and neck sized would force me to conclude that there is no measurable difference statistically.

[charlie b]

If interested, the Houston Warehouse article is a good read that describes some of the things done to achieve more accuracy.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/10/18/secrets-of-the-houston-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

Note that this is not long range shooting, but, does describe some techniques that are useful to us.

[mikeinco]

lol...none of those rifles were savages. those were full blown custom 100/200 yard BENCH rest rifles.


If interested, the Houston Warehouse article is a good read that describes some of the things done to achieve more accuracy.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/10/18/secrets-of-the-houston-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

Note that this is not long range shooting, but, does describe some techniques that are useful to us.

[mikeinco]

i read an article years ago...more than 20 years. and i questioned it. so i duplicated it.
one stock mil surplus rifle rechambered in 308 win( it was 7.62 nato) (fn mauser)
ONE lake city case
50 lr primers( i did use a hand priming tool..not a hammer)
50 168 gr bullets
a lee classic hand loader in 308 win.
i sat at a bench and shot and loaded ONE ROUND AT A TIME
I FIRED ALL 50 BULLETS.
the lee loader neck sizes only.
one case, shot 50 times in one day and i could still close the bolt.
your mileage may vary.


Other than for accuracy, neck sizing can create a case that is difficult to chamber after many reloads. Sizing the neck too much, as in std full length reloading dies, can cause 'early' failure. Early may be after 5 reloads or 10 or 15 depending on the brass and loads. Again, the average hunter, plinker won't really notice since they don't shoot that much.

[charlie b]

....