Elftmann Savage Trigger

[Dave Hoback]

Oh I’m all about modifying, (even though I’ve been accused of having someone else making the things I post). But I like modifying stock components or making things from scratch. I don’t enjoy spending money, to then spend more time/money to change it. If I’m making a purchase, I research up/down, sideways and here & there until I find exactly what I want & know it will work correctly. Except with 1911 triggers..because that’s just the nature of building a 1911. (Every part needs fit with them.) This is why I haven’t purchased any of the aftermarket Savage triggers to this point. None have shown to me, to offer a great deal more performance than a properly worked factory trigger. I was quite hopeful of the Jard, but it soon showed the “kinks” in its armor. Although I’m confident I could work it into a decent performing trigger, it’s just not worth the $220 for the slight increase in performance I might get over my stock trigger. And to be honest, I do enjoy a Safe Action trigger like the Accutrigger. They offer 100% defense against accidental discharge. It simply cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled. Same reason I love Firing Pin Blocks (FPB) in pistols. I think more than a few people would be quite surprised with how pleasant my worked Accutriggers feel. THAT is the kind of modification I really enjoy. Taking either materials or something stock and modifying to perform within a very close margin to the best money can buy. I know many of us here do the same and understand how gratifying it is.

Despite those feelings of mine, I’m glad for anyone who is happy with their purchase. But the fact remains in this thread that one person was quite happy, (although they altered the original). And one person was, it seems, quite unhappy, resulting in the product being sent back for a look. I hope we here the outcome.

[WeeHooker]

So here is the outcome.
I shipped the trigger back on my dime and they had it for over a week. When I inquired, they said they were waiting on "parts from Oxide". Yet, when I got it back Monday, it appears to be the same trigger I sent them with a note that they lubricated the detent and I should do the same. ( Parts were lose in bag, center screw had my Loctite on it, no Loctite on detent spring retaining screw, missing wrench's. IF they replaced anything, they did a good job of keeping it a secret. ) It was still somewhat "crunchy" sounding out of the bag. When installed, (no adjustment) it seemed to work "OK" to about 20 oz but is still noisy when cycled in non cocked position ( even after a little moly grease in the detent hole)..
So I AM an engineer. ( Mechanical /Systems with 33+ years experience of design, prototype and support in military weapon systems) and will say that the issue with the trigger shoe component is by design. Specifically, The shoe is 0.045" wider than the inside of the mod 12 trigger guard so it will not fit through (even if the trigger guard is removed and rotated) . Therefor , the shoe has to be installed/removed every time the action is removed /installed. There is NO way around it unless you leave the shoe off and just use the blade.
To further exacerbate things the shoe is intended to be clamped onto the blade via a small screw with a TINY (0.05") hex key arrangement. It takes some decent torque ( as in bending the wrench) to tighten the shoe and keep it from moving. The screw is clearly under designed as well. I feel it's just a matter of time before the screw head strips out and leaves the owner with having to cut the trigger blade out of an assembled rifle. If you wanted to use the shoe, the best alternative would be to file the trigger guard opening (at least on a Mod 12) . FWIW, the trigger does break pretty cleanly (with no crunch). BTW, It does have a rudimentary adjustment for sear engagement too but I haven't messed with it. After initial test, I changed the spring and now have a decently crisp 13 oz pull ( without shoe installed which is how I will run it)
Summary: For the $150+ invested, and the issues encountered, I would not buy another. However, it's better than the factory trigger as issued. Especially after a spring change. Maybe I'll replace it with another brand at some point but I'll try it awhile first.

https://www.elftactical.com/ELF-SAVAGE-110-SE-Precision-Rifle-Trigger_p_48.html

[charlie b]

I am glad you made those observations. I probably would not have bought one simply because of the trigger shoe. Have never been a fan of one. I'd do as you have and just leave the shoe off.

[Dave Hoback]

What do you mean a rudimentary adjustment for the sear? The 2 adjustments I see on it are on the back, one for the trigger spring & one for the safety. Is there a third not shown? Can you expound please?

[GrenGuy]

Yes. As for Me, the shoe contributes nothing. I have absolutely no use for it, and therefore, don’t use it. But since it is unnecessary and optional, it is no reason not to buy the trigger, if it can suit your purpose.

[GrenGuy]

I have considered, and may yet, add a shim to the sear shelf, to reduce the height to about .014”. We have done this in the past, successfully, with older stock triggers. When done successfully, it actually works better than a rinky dink screw sticking up through the sear.

[Dave Hoback]

Doing that is just asking for an accidental discharge. Rinky dink screw sticking up through the ??… trigger I think you meant, as the Sear simply rides overtop the screw. Actually a screw used to raise or lower the Sear shelf of the trigger is a proven concept. Especially since all aftermarket triggers, with the exception of Jard, use the factory Sear. The Savage factory Sears are inconsistent to say the least. One may respond to .018” shelf belt height, where as another may need .020” for a safe purchase.

It’s interesting the case you continue making for this trigger, despite it’s many shortcomings. Human nature is such a peculiar thing. We feel the need to justify the cost of purchases we’ve made. I’m not singling out one person. We all do this at one time or another.

[GrenGuy]

This is the “COMPETITIVE SHOOTING” Forum. As I said in post #1 of My thread, My interest in the Elftmann trigger is to find a trigger that fills My needs for Bench Rest Competition. We assure safety by observing “Cold Range” protocol. That means no bolts installed until the RSO gives the command “install bolts”, after all muzzles are pointed at the berm. Triggers for this purpose don’t rely on safeties or anything else to insure a safe range. Just the Cold Range Protocol. The next command is “Commence Firing”. An Unintended Discharge merely means you will likely miss your POA, or DQ. Nothing unsafe. My interest in this trigger does not apply to “Any Other Form Of Shooting”. Work on any trigger at your own risk.


Yes, I meant the trigger, not the sear, My Girl Friend had the radio blaring.

I have been using this Elftmann Trigger in a 35# Heavy Gun, and it performs about as well as anything else I have used, in that application. Which is the SSS Competition, RB Sav II, Jard 1 & Current Jard (both back in the box on a shelf), and of course all of the factory triggers Savage has offered.

I feel triggers and fire control has Savage Bench Rest competitors at a considerable disadvantage. Like LoneWolf and other competitors who used to post here, I find Myself drifting in another direction.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, obviously for high level competition, ultimately a custom is the way people go. It’s like that for many sports though. People like custom gear for competition. Simple as that. However, I believe many people out there greatly overestimate their own prowess. Like the avid Golf player who spends several thousand $$ to have a set of custom clubs made fir their “club level” of play. Not going to improve their score, but sure makes ‘em feel better & look more legit. The same holds true for shooting sports; probably over other sports/hobbies. Yet there are guys like Fuj’ showing everyone what a Savage can do in competition. (And never thinking of himself as one of the Elite level shooters on this Earth.

Also: While a good trigger can help a person’s accuracy to a point, there is a level of diminishing returns.

[GrenGuy]

As for Myself, I have read every post Fuj has typed, that I can find, and greatly appreciated every one of them. His 2 7mm wildcats seem very promising, and I wish them great success. At the moment, 6mm’s are leading the organizations that I participate in, but that could change in a heartbeat. In My experience in IBS and GBA, I have never encountered anyone who “thought of himself as one of the ELETE LEVEL shooters on the earth”. Not even the top shooters in the endeavor. It is a very humbling sport. Especially for a lowly Savage shooter. I, and others, appreciate everything guys like Fuj shares that helps us get better. In fact, I hope to run into Fuj at Harry Jones or Whitehorse sometime when He decides to shoot Long Range IBS or GBA. One would think those willing to go up against the worlds best with a Savage, might be appreciated on this site, rather than maligned. Even if it’s not very smart.

If there is a Savage trigger that has reached the level of diminishing returns, I have yet to see it.

[Dave Hoback]

No one was being critical of Gary. Read my post again. My comment was in admiration of his skill. And continuing to compete with Savage rifles. It’s inspiring.

But somehow I think you already knew what I meant & your post in fact had an ulterior motive.

[Robinhood]

I believe many people out there greatly overestimate their own prowess. Like the avid Golf player who spends several thousand $$ to have a set of custom clubs made fir their “club level” of play. Not going to improve their score, but sure makes ‘em feel better & look more legit.

I agree. The internet is full of internet experts that pretend to be experts when actually, very little to none of their knowledge was earned but was plagiarized. What is wrong with people.

[GrenGuy]

I agree. The internet is full of internet experts that pretend to be experts when actually, very little to none of their knowledge was earned but was plagiarized. What is wrong with people.

Present company excluded, We hope ! LOL

[GrenGuy]

WeeHooker, those of Us interested in the Elftmann Trigger are few out here. Please let Us know Your future results and if it meets Your expectations. I have never been able to get the Elftmann to bump fire, even with the spring and piston removed (not recommending this). It has shown to be very safe.

[charlie b]

Same here.

[Robinhood]

Present company excluded, We hope ! LOL

Obviously I was referring to myself!

[Fuj']

I wish I could comment on the Elfman but I can't. I chased all the brands but this one,
and put the stock red blade back in. I did keep the heavier Timney's for other projects.
I guess maybe it's just that the stock trigger works so well for me in a heavy gun. I just
wish I would have put that money elsewhere, but you never know till you try something.
I did not post up the Pa, Tack Driver Lite match yet but of the 48 shooters, I was in the
top 10 early on then the winds struck and struck hard. Two of my 5 relays were a complete
disaster with shots in the 8 and 7 rings. Wind was some of the worst I've seen. I did manage
a 28 out of 48.....First relay, I was shooting 7/8th" groups with that stock trigger in light wind.
One thing about triggers.....Even a 2 ounce Jewel sucks in heavy wind !! Note.....2 of the
range windsocks are rated for 17 mph. After the first relay, they were stretched straight out
and switching directions frantically. The poles they were mounted on were leaning !!!!

[WeeHooker]

Will do, Sir. Unfortunately, I have not made it to the range to test/shoot. However, the trigger does seem to be very consistent ( with spring change and set at 13 oz ). It also passes bump testing here just fine. As I think I eluded too in my last post, I suspect it will work fine for my informal bench shooting to 300 yds. I'm more disappointed in the failure of initial quality, customer service and the shoe design than actual function. I'll post back here after I get a chance to run it a bit. Tight groups!

[GrenGuy]

Fuj, its always good to hear of Your shooting experiences and see the results of Your extensive talent. You and I are competing in different disciplines, but We both appreciate the need for an acceptable trigger, which is a very personal thing. I could make Myself use the Red Blade, but it would be difficult to get it out of My head that it’s really not what I want. Yes, bad conditions is a perfect example of where a good trigger is desirable. One way to approach it is, “pick” Your shots when the wind flags drop, which may only be for a couple of seconds, chamber the round, get on target, and touch it off without disturbing the rifle, before the cold, switching winds return and blow Your hat off. I think as simple as the Elftmann design is, they could provide the solution if they really tried. But when I spoke with them about what I was doing, they were very apprehensive. I guess that is understandable when You consider that it was the trigger that put remington out of business. I will continue the search, and appreciate any help along the way. Thanks for Your input.

[GrenGuy]

WeeHooker, I suspect You may be the victim of post covid quality deterioration?? Seems nothing is as good as it was before covid. The only two things I can imagine could cause the condition You described, is the bearing or the condition of the sear blade. There could have been foreign material in the sealed bearing. This is a main feature of the trigger, and certainly should have been corrected when You sent it back, if it was the problem. But every Savage trigger I have seen needed the sear blade “honed”. They were all rough as a cob. Could be Your source of trouble? As simple as the Elftmann Trigger is, there isn’t much that can go wrong. Tight Groups To You Too !

edit: as for the shoe design, I prefer to use the trigger without the use of the shoe at all. That’s a simple solution to that. But that’s just Me.