axis inaccuracy

[Turkeytider]

" Savage rifles" and " inaccurate " are two terms you don`t see linked together. Don`t know what`s happening with the OP`s Axis, but I thought " ammo " when I first read his post. I know my Savage 110 .223 has definite preferences, especially flat based bullets.

[charlie b]

Yeah, my .223 will have 3" groups with cheap bulk ammo (at 100yd). I've never had a 12" group with factory ammo, but, stranger things have happened.

[preacheranschuetz]

O.K. I listened to everything everyone had to say and went out and bought a brand new Sig Sauer 3x9x50 scope, had it mounted and bore sighted and went to the range. I shot all three different ammo, 100 gr. 115 gr. and the 120 gr. Shooting the 115 gr. first at 100 yds. with bag rest, 1 in bull, two about 2" high and to the left. Adjusted the scope accordingly and shot 3 more. The one went 2 inches above bull and the other two were high and to the left. I decided to try the 100 gr. again and they were eratic. One in bull, one low under bull about 3" and one about 6" under. Again tried to adjust and fired three more of the 100 gr. They hit in three totally different areas again. Went to the 120 gr. and fired three shots. One in bull, two about 4" high and to right. Again, adjusted the scope and shot three more. Again, two to the right and low, and one under bull. I am at a loss unless it is somehow the gun itself. Good rest, squeezing off shots, would believe every one in bull from the shot itself, but not!

[Dave Hoback]

Well, I didn’t think it was the scope. Even still, seems the reloads are shooting best. But you don’t reload yourself, correct?

So, let me ask, & please don’t take this wrong as I don’t know but, are you an experienced shooter, or is this all pretty new to you? I ask because you are doing a lot of scope adjusting. Not really what you want to do in group testing. Just, I’m wondering if you are chasing holes?

In any case, being a used gun, perhaps there is something going on in the barrel. Of course no way of knowing it’s history. If you are absolutely sure of your scope mounting, rifle cleanliness & your shooting, well.. I’m sorry to say, it’s time to take it to someone qualified in diagnosing accuracy issues in firearms.

[Blue Avenger]

2 thoughts
have you done a deep clean including copper remover?
any chance the rest is causing the stock to touch the barrel while moving it to reset scope on target?

[preacheranschuetz]

Well, the truth is that i've been shooting since i'm 12 yrs. old and i'm 77 now. And no, i'm in no way offended by you asking. And yes, I have been chasing holes. Initially after having the new scope put on and bore sighted the group i shot with the reloads was not bad,, just high and to the left. even the one in the bull was on the left side. I then tried to adjust the scope to the right and down a little. Shot again and the shots seemed to be worse. At that point i ony had 6 of the reloads left and decided to go to the 100 gr. and see if there was any consistancy with those. These were the ones which were so erratic the first time i shot the gun. One of these again was in the bull, but the other two were below the bull (though pretty well in line with the center, one about 3 inches low, the other about 6 At that point i went to the 120 grain and shot 3. Again one in bull, two above and to the right, only about a quarter inch apart. I then tried moving the scope down and a little to the left. That time there were two to the right again and one under the bull. It was almost as if i were moving the adjustment way too far, but in all actuality i was moving only two or three clicks at a time. My dad and i reloaded for years, shot every weekend on our own 300 yrd. range using a bench rest. now, I am shooting off the back of my pick up truck using a bag of corn to rest on. As i said earlier, i use to be able to tell where i hit when i shot off. All of my shots felt like they were in the bull, until i got up to the target this time. The rest was pretty stable, but the adjustments always seemed to be "too drastic." Perhaps it is just me, I have tremors in both hands and though i felt steady and sure of my shots, maybe it is just me. I truly wish there were more ammo. available. None at any dealers in this area, and i don't want to pay the price plus $25 for shipping. Pray for me!!!!!

[preacheranschuetz]

No, i have not done a deep clean as of yet. I certainly need to do that now. I don't believe that the barrel ever touched the rest or was against anything when i adjusted the scope. I'm not sure what difference that might make in just an adjustment, possibly i will learn something new today. I am very aware that the barrel touching anything while shooting will make a difference, but that was not the case. I also know that if you cant the rifle that will cause it to shoot off. I was very careful to make sure i did not do that during any of the shots. I remember missing a standing deer when i was about 12 or 13, my dad told me i had missed as soon as the gun went off. I argued, but he was right. I asked how did you know, he said because you had the gun leaning to the side. My dad shot competitively when in the military and was a great instructor. I never could shoot as good as he did, just a country boy who could shoot the eye out of a mosquito!!!!

[Dave Hoback]

Oh I wasn’t inferring that you never reloaded, just that you don’t for this rifle & caliber now. Sorry. Well, even with tremors, I doubt it’s you. Once a person can shoot it stays with them for the most part. I’ve lost an eye & an an arm and though I can’t put a magazine of rounds through one ragged hole like me I used to with a pistol, I can still hit what I’m aiming at. But now, the cleaning... hmm. That’s why I mentioned it. But you’ve just said that you haven’t performed a good cleaning. And this, being a used rifle, could have some metal fouling deposits causing the erratic accuracy. That would be my next area. Get a good copper, lead, nitro fouling solvent and have at it. Rest touching the barrel? I’m not familiar with that being anything. The stock touching the barrel.. now that can certainly cause some bad harmonics & accuracy. You do tube dollar bill test? Check for free floating in the handguard?

[Blue Avenger]

:) random thoughts, never know which one might lead to an idea.

[Turkeytider]

Well, I didn’t think it was the scope. Even still, seems the reloads are shooting best. But you don’t reload yourself, correct?

So, let me ask, & please don’t take this wrong as I don’t know but, are you an experienced shooter, or is this all pretty new to you? I ask because you are doing a lot of scope adjusting. Not really what you want to do in group testing. Just, I’m wondering if you are chasing holes?

In any case, being a used gun, perhaps there is something going on in the barrel. Of course no way of knowing it’s history. If you are absolutely sure of your scope mounting, rifle cleanliness & your shooting, well.. I’m sorry to say, it’s time to take it to someone qualified in diagnosing accuracy issues in firearms.

As a relatively new rifle shooter, have to agree with Dave`s very last statement. If one is fortunate enough to know someone who is VERY experienced, turning the gun over so he can " make it his own " for a bit would be a good way to go,

[Chris_in_Idaho]

I'm new here and not pretending to be an expert, but I'm curious about your groups. Are they erratic in all directions or are they more of a vertical string? Do the shots walk further away with each shot of the group?

[Dave Hoback]

He already explained the shot placements in the groupings in his previous posts. You have missed that. But his shots are pretty random. Didn’t sound like vertical stringing to me. He did convey he WAS in fact probably doing a bit of “Hole Chasing”. Never good when trying to narrow down accuracy issues being ammo or gun related. And he also told us his hands have a bit of the tremors. But his experience tells me he can stick a bullet in a target ok. I’m thinking the problem might be a bit compounded. Not really enough data. Maybe a bit of hole chasing on 1 or 2 groups, aided by perhaps a bad tremors day. Rifle not particularly liking anything but the reloads. And of course, no history of the gun, thus the barrel. Which may have some metal fouling deposits, worn throat, etc.

Not for nothin’, but that about sums it up I thinks. What say you?:redface-new:

[charlie b]

So, as to technique. When shooting groups to check a load I never move the scope during that group. Sometimes not for the entire session. Does not matter if you are in the bull or not, just as long as you can see where the group is. After you fire a 5 round group, then you can adjust the scope to bring the crosshairs to the center of the group. Always make the final turn of the turret in the same direction, ie, don't move it two clicks to the left, then one click to the right. Too much slop in the mechanism.

[Dave Hoback]

Exactly my thinking Charlie. I call it “Hole Chasing”. Just not good to mess with anything while shooting for groups. You’ll never achieve consistency. Setting Zero and Grouping are two separate things. Had Mojo to mix ‘em.:surprise:

[ewtn01]

I'm new here and (my first time posting) really enjoy the wisdom and comments. Have you checked the action screws?

[Robinhood]

Being a used rifle, could the barrel be loose (If not torqued sufficiently the barrel will move around)? Could the action screws be loose(if they are the action will wiggle around and cause a point of impact shift)? Could the barrel be touching the barrel channel? Have you taken a video of yourself shooting to make sure you are not jerking the trigger in any way? Is it a very thin barrel that requires about 5 or more minutes of cooling before firing again(some barrels have more stress than others)?

Hoping something mentioned can lead us to you enjoying the accuracy of your rifle.

Just noticed someone beat me to the loose action screws.

[wbm]

He went away after 2/24. Hope he is ok.

[Tiekmir]

After reading Nathan Fosters "The Practical Guide to Bolt Action Rifle Accurizing & Maintenance" my bet is that the inaccuracy is because of the bore. It needs to be heavily lapped, maybe even fire lapped. He reports he has taken dude bores and made them tack drivers with enough working on them.

Glass bedding the action and stabalizing the stock would help too.

[rerun5]

I had the same thought as ewtn01. I have an Axis in 6.5 Creedmoor that I bought in December 2020. I had it zeroed and went out last summer to punch holes and it wouldn't shoot a group for anything. As I prepared to adjust the scope I noticed the action was just loose enough for me to notice. I tightened both action screws and we were back in business. Just a thought.

[prdatr]

I had the same thought as ewtn01. I have an Axis in 6.5 Creedmoor that I bought in December 2020. I had it zeroed and went out last summer to punch holes and it wouldn't shoot a group for anything. As I prepared to adjust the scope I noticed the action was just loose enough for me to notice. I tightened both action screws and we were back in business. Just a thought.

The first thing I do when I get a new rifle home be it new or used is to take the stock off and wipe the action down.
Then I torque if back down.