Savage Guru gunsmith

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Getting conflicting information. The question comes up about "unsupported" case head ? Think I'll refer to Fred on this.
Email headed your way.

[sharpshooter]

There is no unsupported case head. It's the same exact feed cone as an AR-15, and nobody has any problems with it. Before I starting doing this, I sectioned case heads on every case I could get my hands on that was based on .378" boltface.

[Flat Land Coaxer]

What kind of turnaround do you have for something like that nowadays sharpshooter?

[tomme boy]

There is no unsupported case head. It's the same exact feed cone as an AR-15, and nobody has any problems with it. Before I starting doing this, I sectioned case heads on every case I could get my hands on that was based on .378" boltface.
Then why does this happen in AR15's? You can not say it does not happen because it does. 6.5 grendal is another one that it happens to. I showed you pics of brass that have the low web and this happened to and you still do not see it as a problem? Granted, you are very knowledgeable but you don't know everything. Sometimes the fix ends up being a bigger problem.

[Robinhood]

Then why does this happen in AR15's? You can not say it does not happen because it does. 6.5 grendal is another one that it happens to. I showed you pics of brass that have the low web and this happened to and you still do not see it as a problem? Granted, you are very knowledgeable but you don't know everything. Sometimes the fix ends up being a bigger problem.

An AR-15 can begin to extract the case before the pressure subsides. Over gassed? Sometimes you rip the rim off, sometimes the case expands but still comes out..

[Dave Hoback]

Then why does this happen in AR15's? You can not say it does not happen because it does. 6.5 grendal is another one that it happens to. I showed you pics of brass that have the low web and this happened to and you still do not see it as a problem? Granted, you are very knowledgeable but you don't know everything. Sometimes the fix ends up being a bigger problem.

Like I had said, I can’t really speak for this in a bolt gun, other than knowing about it. But Fred JUST spoke on it, having first hand working knowledge himself. Now I certainly CAN speak on it relating to the AR15 platform. What you’ve outlined has not happened in any AR I’ve ever built, beyond a couple thous/inch. And I’ve built quite a few more than most in almost 20years. In fact, I’ve never seen it without some other pressure identifying problems. Stuck, cracked cases, blown primers, etc. So, no.. it’s not the norm. There is no identifiable “band” around the cases of my reloads in my current AR for sure.

[tomme boy]

Has nothing to do with the gas system. It happens when the "cone" is too deep and you have brass that is not made correctly. Starline being the main culprit. But Hornady is known for this to happen too. I think as long as the cone is done correctly it "should" not happen. But how many people are capable of sectioning their brass and the depth gauges to determine if the cone is too close to the unsupported web.

[Dave Hoback]

Who said anything about the gas system?? I’m simply talking about hands on with a specific platform.:redface-new:

[Fuj']

What exactly does the cartridge do when you push it into the chamber ?? Looking
at the 17 Remington, It's basically a needle, and should not have much interference
being chambered. And what model Savage is this ?? Is it a blind magazine ??

I was going to keep my trap shut but here goes. The above quote of mine has not been
answered.....Coning a barrel is a band aid fix for chambering, as was used early on for the
M-16's to solve jamming problems in the field. There is a parent problem why there is a
feeding issue, and most always starts with the magazine angle and depth it's locked in
place and or feed lips. My two Rock Rivers 5.56 AR's have a minimal feed cone. The AR-
EOP varmint with full bull Wilson barrel has less then a 1/32" shallow angle cut. So my
advice is to find the parent problem first and that starts with what's going on in the loading
process. Is that cartridge taking a nose dive ?? Running up hill ?? Bolt skipping over the top ??
Binding at half chamber ??

[Nor Cal Mikie]

In my case, I'am talking bolt guns. Single feeding at that! SHORT ROUND (1 1/4" long) lays on the loading ramp. Bolt starts to close. Round gets pushed forward to the flat end of the barrel trying to hit the chamber hole. Bullet hits the flat area "around" the chamber opening before it can start into the chamber. Bullet gets pushed back into the case neck. :mad:
Longer OAL Round like the .221 Fireball feeds better but still a PITA at times. Even longer rounds like a .223 will feed better because they get tipped UP by the loading ramp.
"Feed Ramp" cut at chamber opening lets the bullet start into the chamber. Loading issue solved. ;) I only know of one way to find out for sure.
Issue with loading an AR? I could see that AND the "feed ramp" help/cure.

[Flat Land Coaxer]

Sharpshooter how long to get this done?

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Sharpshooter how long to get this done?
And what about an auth # to ship and how much $$?

[tomme boy]

Who said anything about the gas system?? I’m simply talking about hands on with a specific platform.:redface-new:

read the post #45

[Dave Hoback]

My apologies Tommy boy. I thought you were referencing my post, not Robin’s. It just didn’t make sense to me. The Brain damage I suffered still gets me mixed up at times, LOL.

[tomme boy]

Got some myself. Dead for 30 minutes. Heart attack. I repeat stuff all the time. Luckily my old lady still likes me after telling her stuff 3-4 times without realizing it.

[Robinhood]

read the post #45

As with anything done incorrectly, that is always suspect. I commented on gas systems possibly having an impact the issue in a system where the machine work was done correctly. If you have brass that is not supported in the web at .140" the brass is suspect. I have seen more than my fair share of case head seperation. Always above the web and further up the case than .140". An improperly chambered or polished chamber with minimal oversizing can also cause bulging at the base.

The Stoner Gas Impingement system if not properly tuned or is firing extremely high pressure loads is hard on brass. I didn't think this was a secret Tomme.



The Brain damage I suffered still gets me mixed up at times, LOL.

I don't need brain damage to have that problem.


Luckily my old lady still likes me after telling her stuff 3-4 times without realizing it.

At least you still have one.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Anybody that asked ever hear back from Fred? No price, no Auth # to ship to get work done?

[Wildcat]

As someone who has done a fair amount of business with SSS, I recommend sending Lisa an email (use the email address at the bottom of the SSS contact info page) containing all your questions. If you don't want to write down all your questions and would rather talk to someone ask for a call back or how to set up a call with them. I have never had to wait more than two days for an email response with answers to all my questions or instructions on how/when to have a phone conversation.

[Flat Land Coaxer]

I emailed him. He got back to me today and said $40 and right now it would be a 1 week turn around.

[tomme boy]

If anyone wants to see extreme examples of the belted mag brass in an AR15 look into the 6.5 grendal. Lapua brass is one of the worst for this. But it seems all makers are having problems because of the extremely low web height of all makers of the brass. Then combine this with too much of a feed cone and brass makes it one loading and sometimes catastrophic failure. Then Hornady runs their dies at a small base size and it makes this even worse if you use it.