Reloading 6.5 Creedmoor

[Ernest T]

You shoot at 1,200yds. I shoot at 1,000yds. I want the maximum velocity I can get when the bullet arrives at the target. My first load development is PRESSURE TEST. I do this in My garage, shooting into a suitable backstop. I start with the bullet in the lands, and work up until pressure signs become apparent. This method will indicate the max pressure the case can stand. As we back out of the lands, the pressure reduces. But now we have a base line for MAXIMUM load. With what the wind does to ballets at 600yds and beyond, I want all the velocity I can get, THAT SHOOTS ACCURATELY. That means eventually loading and tuning for the desired target range. Only the target can reveal if the level of success has been achieved.

Be safe and proceed at Your own risk !! PS ... most distance shooters find their desired loads near Max Pressure.

Interesting, I've only been doing this for a short while and have found that my gun is not very accurate near max loads. I've noticed it with RL-16, H4350 and StaBall 6.5 with the Hornady 140 ELD-Ms. It could very well be the bullet or the seating depth and not the rifle because I've stuck with seating depths that I can load in my magazine. I've struggled to find an economical way to identify powder loads. Mainly I've been shooting groups every .2 grains until I find several in a row that group close to 1/2 MOA, but that eats up powder, primers and bullets.

I've loaded rounds for the Barnes Match Burner's into the lands so we'll see how that goes.

[Ernest T]

I had one of the most disorganized days I have had in a long time, but it actually turned out to be a terrific shooting experience.

It started with the weather, it was supposed to be 61 and cloudy with a pretty good breeze blowing from the north. That's okay for shooting because the range points almost due north so there wouldn't be much side to side wind. However, by the time I got to the range, it had only gone up to 45 and had started to drizzle, blowing water under the roof over the shooting positions.

I used the targets I had labeled for 40.6 and 40.8 grains to zero my scope so right off the bat I screwed up. I was happy with the group I got with RL-16. I shot two rounds, then adjusted down 1 MOA and shot the other three. I loaded these rounds to the land with Barnes Match Burner 140 grain bullets and was flabbergasted by how accurate they were with RL-16. I had one round that wouldn't chamber and measured it when I got home. It was .003 too long and I thought I verified all of them were 2.300 last night when I loaded them. I seated it to 2.300 and the bolt closed on it. I also didn't have any loads of 41.4, none in the box or the bag. I found them on the bench when I got home. Go figure.


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I was pretty close on my guess that what I had achieved with RL-16 and the Hornady 140 grain bullet in my gun would be closer to what I got with the Barnes Match Burner 140 grain bullet than the info provided by Barnes. I also got great ES and SD with these loads. I've found that CCI 450 Magnum Small Rifle Primers give much better ES and SD than regular SRP.

My Velocity
40.6 - 2597
40.8 - 2612
41.0 - 2634
41.2 - 2648
41.4 - screwed up
41.6 - 2656
41.8 - 2664
42.0 - 2670

Barnes Data
38.9 - 2500
41.3 - 2600
42.5 - 2700

These rounds were crazy accurate, but leaves me with a quandary. They are way longer than my magazine so I'd have to hand load them. I wonder what would happen if I shortened them to fit the mag?

The forgotten rounds.

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The primers of the 42.0 grain load. I finally understand cratered primers and will address that soon.

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[charlie b]

I think I'm probably too ham fisted to gently push it out!

Just don't push it hard enough to distort the bullet.

If you want an easier way to do it then size a case and cut a slot in the neck, then seat the bullet.

[charlie b]

Some bullets are very sensitive to bullet jump/jam. The Bergers I used in my .308 were like that. Groups less than 1/2MOA unless they were loaded 0.010 off the lands. Opened up to 1MOA. They would not fit the mag at that length. Not an issue for me since I don't use the mag anyway.

[Ernest T]

Some bullets are very sensitive to bullet jump/jam. The Bergers I used in my .308 were like that. Groups less than 1/2MOA unless they were loaded 0.010 off the lands. Opened up to 1MOA. They would not fit the mag at that length. Not an issue for me since I don't use the mag anyway.

I can hand feed them, I don't shoot very fast anyway.

[Ernest T]

Some bullets are very sensitive to bullet jump/jam. The Bergers I used in my .308 were like that. Groups less than 1/2MOA unless they were loaded 0.010 off the lands. Opened up to 1MOA. They would not fit the mag at that length. Not an issue for me since I don't use the mag anyway.

I don't know if these Barnes Match Burners are, but I'll find out. Berger says you can jump their VLD bullets and they will shoot well.

[GrenGuy]

I can hand feed them, I don't shoot very fast anyway.

I Greave so for those who insist that they NEED a MAGAZINE LOL, LOL, LOL !!!

Yes, everyone’s VLD’s can have nodes in the lands, and out of the lands. Last seating depth test I did, I found accuracy at Touch, and from .060” to .080” off the lands. This with Berger Hybrads.

[charlie b]

My experience with Bergers was limited to the 155 Full Bore. It really needed to be touching the lands to get the best from it.

The most interesting seat test I did was with 168SMK's. They were good from .060 to .010. But, they did not like to touch.

[PhilC]

I can hand feed them, I don't shoot very fast anyway.
I hand feed all ammo when I want accuracy, like you, I'm not in a hurry so loading one at a time is fine.

[Ernest T]

I loaded 18 rounds of Barnes Match Burners with 42 grains of RL-16 and three different seating depths like Barnes recommended. I skipped the load into the lands since I essential already did that and was very pleased with the result. I will shoot these this week to see if there's something that might be better than the results I achieved with 42 grains loaded to the lands. I don't know that I need to spend a lot of time doing this because, except for the load .120 off the lands, none of them will come close to fitting the magazine at that length. Unless one looks like it'll shoot sub half inch groups I'll probably just go with 2.300 CBTO and a COAL of close to 2.950. Even at that length, there is plenty of bullet left in the case.



010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
.040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

There's one other reason to not shorten the bullets to fit in the magazine. I bought a Redding Competition Seating Die set with a micrometer adjustment and I think some of the results I've achieved the last few weeks are due to that die. For those of you not familiar with it, Redding utilizes a sleeve that slides up as you seat the bullet, guiding and centering it in the case. It also has a spring loaded seating stem, specifically designed for VLD bullets. I've gotten really good results the last couple of trips to the range and believe that some of it is attributable to this die. The issue is, it comes with a warning from Redding that you can't use it on compressed loads.

"To hold the bullet concentrically, the Bullet Alignment Bore and the Seating Stem have been honed and ground to virtually the same diameter as a jacketed bullet. As a result, the seating stem walls are relatively thin and not as inherently robust as the Seating Plug in a standard Seating Die. Though the Stem is heat treated to make it as strong as possible, it will not endure the excess seating pressure of Compressed Charges. This excess seating pressure will crack the Seating Stem which will, in turn, damage the other internal parts of the Die. Please be mindful because replacement parts are costly and NOT covered under Warranty. Please remember that your Competition Seating Die is a precision instrument and should be used and treated as such. A handloader using this Die to compress powder is tantamount to a machinist using a Micrometer as a C-Clamp."

I've been doing calculations and my loads at 2.163 are compressed loads. Here's the math, the numbers on the left of the case and bullet are measured lengths. The numbers on the right are best guesses. I measured the distance from the case mouth to the top of the powder with a 1/4" dowel, marked and measured it with the calipers. I transferred that measurement to the case and took the other measurements by holding the calipers up against the case and eyeballing it. They aren't exact, but close enough to determine that if I load the case to 2.163 CBTO, considerably more than .473 of the bullet is in the case.

I took the die apart and it doesn't look like I damaged anything yet, but I need to figure out how short I can go before I start compressing powder for each bullet I load. I think this only pertains to extruded powder like RL-16 and H4350 because ball powders settle better in the case.

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[Ernest T]

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what does 1.9” indicate?

[charlie b]

1:9 twist or faster.

[Ernest T]

1:9 twist or faster.

Ah, thanks!

[Dave Hoback]

what does 1.9” indicate?


The 1:9 is actually wrong. I guess at one time it was, and they just left the old picture of the box. But on Berger’s site, the minimum twist for the 140gr VLD Target is 1:8. The bullet is 1.387” OAL & .718” Base to Ogive length. I am fond of these pills.

[Fuj']

The 1:9 is actually wrong. I guess at one time it was, and they just left the old picture of the box. But on Berger’s site, the minimum twist for the 140gr VLD Target is 1:8. The bullet is 1.387” OAL & .718” Base to Ogive length. I am fond of these pills.

Actually, 9 twist is correct for minimum. 1.3 as calculated, is your base minimum. It will
do that at 2700 fps.

[Ernest T]

Actually, 9 twist is correct for minimum. 1.3 as calculated, is your base minimum. It will
do that at 2700 fps.

Fuj', can you explain what 1.3 as calculated is referring to?

[Dave Hoback]

Actually, 9 twist is correct for minimum. 1.3 as calculated, is your base minimum. It will
do that at 2700 fps.

With an almost 1.400” long bullet?:o Even Berger changed this. Just read the listing on their site. I don’t make this stuff up. Now, I’m not saying 1:9 won’t work. And pushing those 140’s at 3000fps+ would certainly help stretch that 1:9. But given the two as choices as choice, I’d choose 1:8 & wager it’s a much better fit. Berger & about every 6.5mm shooter agrees.

Let me ask you Fuj’.. which would you choose, 1:8 or 1:9? Shoot! I’m planning on 1:7.5 next barrel.

[GrenGuy]

This is Ernest T’s thread. And His rifle has a 1 in 8 twist. So 1 in 9 is sort of a Moot point in this instance.

[Ernest T]

This is Ernest T’s thread. And His rifle has a 1 in 8 twist. So 1 in 9 is sort of a Moot point in this instance.

Yeah, I just wanted to know what it meant since I hadn't seen it on other bullets, or at least didn't notice it. Now that I know what it is it makes sense. I'm still interested in understanding how '1.3 calculated" relates to twist.

[GrenGuy]

Yeah, I just wanted to know what it meant since I hadn't seen it on other bullets, or at least didn't notice it. Now that I know what it is it makes sense. I'm still interested in understanding how '1.3 calculated" relates to twist.

Not 100% sure, but I think 1.3 is referring to the length of the bullet in inches. Stabilization is subject to bullet “length”. Shooters talk about it in terms bullet weight, but that only applies as it assumes a heavier bullet is longer. Solid copper bullets are longer for their weight, there fore need more twist to stabilize (an example).