Reloading 6.5 Creedmoor

[Ernest T]

If you haven’t found the beginning of resistance you’re only guessing on how much headspace you’re creating. As an excersize you could back the die off a couple thousanths, size and fire one case, then cycle that same case through the chamber, if no resistance back the die off another thousand, load and repeat until a fired case starts to resist chambering. Note that number from base to whatever datum you are using.

To what end Jim? I’ve followed the normal procedure, fire the round, then bump the shoulder. I’ve dropped the bump to .001-.002. The brass has been fired at least ten times and been bumped judiciously after every firing. How could it have too much headspace?

Is that what you think is causing the cratered primers?

[South Prairie jim]

To what end Jim? I’ve followed the normal procedure, fire the round, then bump the shoulder. I’ve dropped the bump to .001-.002. The brass has been fired at least ten times and been bumped judiciously after every firing. How could it have too much headspace?

Is that what you think is causing the cratered primers?

I think it is certainly possible’ let’s say the once fired case is still .003 short and you create an additional .002 or .003

The end result is ensuring that you are not creating excessive headspace, you shouldn’t need to bump once fired cases or even twice fired, depending on how hot you’re loading it may take three times before you feel resistance to chambering s fired round. At least you could eliminate this from the search for the issue that’s causing this cratering. ( think of it as oversight review or just double checking)
i only mention it because you’ve posted on open forum, I’m not trying to troll or crash your program and if you don’t figure it out no one will know or care beyond casual conversation. We’re just trying to help if possible..
again best wishes moving forward

[Ernest T]

I think it is certainly possible’ let’s say the once fired case is still .003 short and you create an additional .002 or .003

The end result is ensuring that you are not creating excessive headspace, you shouldn’t need to bump once fired cases or even twice fired, depending on how hot you’re loading it may take three times before you feel resistance to chambering s fired round. At least you could eliminate this from the search for the issue that’s causing this cratering. ( think of it as oversight review or just double checking)
i only mention it because you’ve posted on open forum, I’m not trying to troll or crash your program and if you don’t figure it out no one will know or care beyond casual conversation. We’re just trying to help if possible..
again best wishes moving forward

I don't think you're trolling, don't worry about that. I want to understand the logic behind your suggestion. I've learned a whole lot here the past 8 months and wouldn't dismiss anyone out of hand.

[Whynot]

You're not creating excessive headspace by bumping the shoulder .001 to .002- just not happening.

[South Prairie jim]

You're not creating excessive headspace by bumping the shoulder .001 to .002- just not happening.

You’re assuming you know the gentleman’s chamber dimension, and true it’s probably not excessive but in the long range/accuracy game we assume everything is broken until we fix it.
primer cratering doesn’t really show on paper but soft primer, short pin fall, weak firing pin springs, internal drag, stuff like that will definitely show on the chronograph as well as the target.

[wbm]

I’m not going to read 17 pages but if you’re creating Excessive headspace you’ll see primers that resemble those.
Good luck moving forward.

Yep.

[Ernest T]

Why would the fired case be shorter than the chamber before sizing?

[Ernest T]

I might have misspoke when I said I didn't experience heavy bolt lift. The bolt on my gun feels heavy, even with a lift kit installed. You can't quickly slam a round in to the chamber or it will hang up and cause you to double clutch to get it to close. It closes easily if you close it slowly.

I tried an experiment to determine if I'm resizing the cases correctly. I removed the firing pin and closed the bolt on one of my resized cases, then tried it with two cases with the shoulders bumped .002 and .004. It was definitely harder to close the bolt on my sized cases than it was on two I bumped .002 and .004.

First, this video is the bolt operation without a case in the chamber. There is some resistance at the top and the bolt never just falls into place. It's not stiff, it just won't fall with just gravity.


https://youtu.be/wdF-e3Hkz3I

I referenced my sized brass at .000 and resized two pieces -.002 and -.004.

9472

9473

9474

This is a video of the bolt closing on my normally sized brass. The bolt closure is pretty stiff.


https://youtu.be/nuAhn7y3VdU

Video of the bolt close with a case sized -.002. The bolt is stiff at the top, but once past that point it moves pretty well, but it feels like there is still some slight resistance. I sized another case to -.004 and the bolt felt the same way it did without a case in the chamber in video one.


https://youtu.be/hl_tjA16CfE

I might have actually have too little head space in my reloaded rounds.

[South Prairie jim]

I might have misspoke when I said I didn't experience heavy bolt lift. The bolt on my gun feels heavy, even with a lift kit installed. You can't quickly slam a round in to the chamber or it will hang up and cause you to double clutch to get it to close. It closes easily if you close it slowly.

I tried an experiment to determine if I'm resizing the cases correctly. I removed the firing pin and closed the bolt on one of my resized cases, then tried it with two cases with the shoulders bumped .002 and .004. It was definitely harder to close the bolt on my sized cases than it was on two I bumped .002 and .004.

First, this video is the bolt operation without a case in the chamber. There is some resistance at the top and the bolt never just falls into place. It's not stiff, it just won't fall with just gravity.


https://youtu.be/wdF-e3Hkz3I

I referenced my sized brass at .000 and resized two pieces -.002 and -.004.

9472

9473

9474

This is a video of the bolt closing on my normally sized brass. The bolt closure is pretty stiff.


https://youtu.be/nuAhn7y3VdU

Video of the bolt close with a case sized -.002. The bolt is stiff at the top, but once past that point it moves pretty well, but it feels like there is still some slight resistance. I sized another case to -.004 and the bolt felt the same way it did without a case in the chamber in video one.


https://youtu.be/hl_tjA16CfE

I might have actually have too little head space in my reloaded rounds.

Now you know. :(

[Ernest T]

I ordered the Redding competition shell holder kit which allows you to vary case sizing in increments of .002. The kit contains six shell holders labeled .002 to .010. The directions say to start with the .010 shell holder and move down until you can't feel the bolt close on the case. The .010 shell holder is the thinnest at .368 from the bottom of the shell holder to the shell holder floor. The .002 is .378 from the bottom to the shell holder floor.

9481

My plan was to size the brass and see how it fit the chamber, but I was having trouble feeling the fit with just the firing pin removed so I removed the extractor and ejector from the bolt. That made it much easier to feel the brass. There was no resistance with the bolt closed on an empty chamber. This was the first time I'd removed either the ejector or extractor and that and it went okay except for the ball bearing shooting across the room. I was able to get another 1/8" ball bearing at Ace Hardware. I learned a 1 gallon plastic bag is your friend.

9480

I started with the .010 shell holder and following the directions, moved to the .008, .006 and .004 shell holder until I couldn't feel the case when I closed the bolt. The .004 shell holder provided a good fit on about 80% of the cases and you could feel a slight drag on the bolt on the other 20%. It wasn't much, but you could feel it.

The video shows me loading cases sized with the .010, .008, .006 and .004 shell holders.


https://youtu.be/f5Ze1S0weU8

[South Prairie jim]

Looks good’ If you set the shoulder back .002 from that last case that chambered without resistance, this should give you a round that does not display excess headspace yet chambers freely before and after ignition.

[Ernest T]

I haven't posted much because its been so hot in Texas that I haven't been shooting. Its not just that the highs have been in the 104-107 range, but that the lows at night are above 80. We can't shoot at the gun club until 8 and by 10 its already over 90...and humid. The reason for this post is this. If this is the future of Alliant Powders, then I'll be using something else.

9730

[GrenGuy]

You should find a good load with H4350 in the Creed. H4831SC is no slouch.

[Ernest T]

You should find a good load with H4350 in the Creed. H4831SC is no slouch.

I bought a couple jugs of H4350. Not taking chances on running short!

[CFJunkie]

My 6.5mm CMs really like H4350, averaging 0.322 for 333 5-round groups with bullets from 130 to 147 grains.

As GrenGuy posted, they also shoot H4831SC pretty well, in my case, especially with 147 ELD-Ms, averaging 0.330.

[Dave Hoback]

Edited for triggering effect..

Rl17 is my go to powder for my 260. But that might change in the new 260AI barrel on its way, so we’ll see. Unfortunately, the crazy prices seem to here to stay I think. I’m lucky in that I shoot sparingly. But I know competition shooters are hurting bad.

[charlie b]

Dave, you do know those prices went up before Biden was elected.

[Ernest T]

Welcome to Bidenomics! :mad:

Rl17 is my go to powder for my 260. But that might change in the new 260AI barrel on its way, so we’ll see. Unfortunately, the crazy prices seem to here to stay I think. I’m lucky in that I shoot sparingly. But I know competition shooters are hurting bad.

Its easy for those on the right to blame those on the left and vice versa, but this isn't industry wide. Hogdon powder has been going down. Alliant powder is the only one going up like this. Primers are now readily available and $69 per 1000 locally. How is Biden responsible for those type of price fluctuations?

[want2ride]

Before the last presidential election i got primers for $30 per 1k that are now $70, and lots of hodgdon powder for 30 and now it is $48... because the inflation rate in the firearms industry being higher than the already high nation as a whole since the last election, i don't expect it to come much lower.

[charlie b]

Before the last presidential election i got primers for $30 per 1k that are now $70, and lots of hodgdon powder for 30 and now it is $48... because the inflation rate in the firearms industry being higher than the already high nation as a whole since the last election, i don't expect it to come much lower.

You've been in different stores than I have. Most of my pricing has been from Cabelas and Sportsmans. I haven't seen primers for $30/k since before Covid. And powder back then was $35-$40. Covid drove it all up and it has just stayed there (that just happened to be during the previous admin). When Biden took office powder was in the $50-60 range and primers were between $70 and $100+/k. Some prices have moved up or down a little since then based on supply and demand along with importation issues.