Which Trigger Replacement?

[LDSILLS]

Major Kudos and big thanks to Dave Hoback for the conversation with Naomi at Gun Shack. Kudos to Gun Shack for offering Red Blade Target Triggers and 60z sear.
Mine should be here any day for my 12BVSS 22-250 to 6mm-BR build.

For all you that have installed yours do you have any issues with timing?

Thanks,

Larry

[centershot]

As the O P, My intent was to have a chasis that I could put different barrels on to shoot paper, maybe a few prairie dogs.I put on the 110 I bought, a Boyds thumb hole stock, single shot adapter, extended bot handle, vastly improved trigger. Almost forgot that I also installed a bolt lift kit. Have a Savage heavy barrel in .30/06, .220 Rocket, and a sporter 6.5 Creed.
Just started shooting 110 grain .30 v-maxin it to 3,500 fps and .3" groups. This is a lot of fun and am always looking for more barrels.
Also have model 12 in .223 Ackley and one in 6 mm TCU. Great prairie dog rigs!

[KMW1954]

Centershot, I am running 3 Savages. A Model 10 in 223 Blind mag Stagger feed with a 22" barrel which was my 1st. It is now in a Sea Camp stock. A Model 11 that I purchased as a barreled action in 243 which now wears a Model 12 26" heavy barrel also in 223 which I had been shooting with a Boyds At-One Thumbhole and now a Model 110 Switchback in 6mmARC , it now wears the At-One Stock and I just started hand loading for it.

In the future the Model 10 will be getting the Target Trigger and a new Shilen 223 4groove 0:7.5 twist and maybe a better stock.. Then the Model 11 may go bye-bye. Waiting to see how this ARC performs.

[Dave Hoback]

Major Kudos and big thanks to Dave Hoback for the conversation with Naomi at Gun Shack. Kudos to Gun Shack for offering Red Blade Target Triggers and 60z sear.
Mine should be here any day for my 12BVSS 22-250 to 6mm-BR build.

For all you that have installed yours do you have any issues with timing?

Thanks,

Larry


I’m just a guy Larry. I simply contacted GunShack to ask if they’d order these parts for me. It was Noemi who took the time to speak with me & then she took it to Lance who made the call. So I was simply The Messenger, so to speak.

The Trigger has no bearing on Timing. Remember, we’ve discussed this… in your build thread I believe?

[LDSILLS]

Dave,

You are correct on the timing I forgot.

I received my Red Blade trigger today and I am sure the sear will follow soon. I just do not understand why the Common Trigger Pivot and AccuRelease Pivot PIN did not arrive with an E-clip?

http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3033&d=1492899348

No big deal I'll go to Harbor Freight and buy a 300 piece E-CLIP variety pack for $7.00.

Larry

[Dave Hoback]

It’s not included because it’s not a listed part. Just reuse the one from your standard Accutrigger. Or, yes, just grab some. I already told everyone they are 1/8th. Main thing is: Don’t sweat the small stuff… and ya wanna know something? It’s all small stuff!


I got mine all finished up. Knocked off the burrs & edges. Made up a set of my Titanium side shims to zero side play. And I went aged with my my new Overtravel drop idea. I threaded the top side of the hole for the Safety Blade Spring m4-.70; the hole directly in front of the Trigger Safety screw. I could only thread it bit less than halfway, but that was plenty. Then I used an M4 set screw, threaded with the tip facing UP. I had to trim the set screw down just a bit, then bottomed it in the threads tightly with Locktight. Picture below is from online. I just made a mark where the set screw is with a red arrow pointing..roughy above the Safety Blade Spring. It stops against the Trigger safety Bar which is always in the path for it. I’m pleased with the outcome.

https://i.ibb.co/dWtn3Th/875854-BD-4-FAE-4899-BDBD-9-B70-E05757-EF.png (https://ibb.co/h7cpn6q)

[ky-n]

I need help from the knowledgeable folks here. I received the trigger, sear and spring, (BIG thanks to all involved arranging this) installation went fine on my 112 BVSS-S and everything is working just as intended. I did have to modify the trigger guard to accommodate the wider trigger which was no big deal. My problem is that even with the spring adjusted to what should be it's weakest/lowest setting the trigger will not go below 22 oz. and I am almost positive it is higher than that since my trigger gauge is an old spring based unit. I replaced a RB Sav-2 on the rifle that was set at 12 oz. using the gauge and was happy with the trigger pull weight but was not happy with the trigger itself. It looks like the only way to lower the pull weight any further is to cut the spring which I would prefer not to do unless as an absolute last resort. Please help.

[Dave Hoback]

I need help from the knowledgeable folks here. I received the trigger, sear and spring, (BIG thanks to all involved arranging this) installation went fine on my 112 BVSS-S and everything is working just as intended. I did have to modify the trigger guard to accommodate the wider trigger which was no big deal. My problem is that even with the spring adjusted to what should be it's weakest/lowest setting the trigger will not go below 22 oz. and I am almost positive it is higher than that since my trigger gauge is an old spring based unit. I replaced a RB Sav-2 on the rifle that was set at 12 oz. using the gauge and was happy with the trigger pull weight but was not happy with the trigger itself. It looks like the only way to lower the pull weight any further is to cut the spring which I would prefer not to do unless as an absolute last resort. Please help.


Did you try testing it without being installed in the stock first? If not, go back and try that first. If the same, just play with it a bunch. Dry fire it while you’re watching TV or something. Did you read earlier where we commented on the parts having considerable burrs, flashing material on the edges? In fact, my Sear had a huge burr right on the relief angle surface. My bet is your parts have similar and this is causing the added weight.

That is of course, so long as you’ve eliminated any possible obvious variables. Hang ups & such. Also, are there any other parts you done which could possibly interfere? Also, make certain the trigger guard isn’t still hindering the trigger. If nothing else, my money is on my previous statement.


Oh yeah… and Do Not cut the Trigger spring!

[ky-n]

Did you try testing it without being installed in the stock first? If not, go back and try that first. If the same, just play with it a bunch. Dry fire it while you’re watching TV or something. Did you read earlier where we commented on the parts having considerable burrs, flashing material on the edges? In fact, my Sear had a huge burr right on the relief angle surface. My bet is your parts have similar and this is causing the added weight. That is of course, so long as you’ve eliminated any possible obvious variables. Hang ups & such. Also, are there any other parts you done which could possibly interfere? Also, make certain the trigger guard isn’t still hindering the trigger. If nothing else, my money is on my previous statement.Oh yeah… and Do Not cut the Trigger spring!Yes what I have done so far is I have tested it both in and out of the stock, with and without the trigger guard, with and without the shims I made for side play and the pull weight stays the same. I did order a new trigger guard just in case. I didn't notice any major burrs or flashing but could easily have missed something, I will take it back out and give it a closer examination, I was going to take it back out anyway to work on the safety bar, it works fine other than it is harder than I like to move it to the on position. I did dry fire it for about half an hour, maybe that will help show something.

[Dave Hoback]

What do you mean move it to the ON Position? Do you mean the Safety? You can adjust that. Was yours already an Accutrigger? What are you referring to working on with the Safety Bar?

[ky-n]

What do you mean move it to the ON Position? Do you mean the Safety? You can adjust that. Was yours already an Accutrigger? What are you referring to working on with the Safety Bar?

The safety is stiff moving to the SAFE position, it moves to the OFF SAFE easily. The part I am calling the safety bar is this part:
10500

The rifle is pre Accutrigger with a F41xxxx serial number.

[Dave Hoback]

Ok, yeah… I was thinking that. Well, I’m sure you already know that set screw needs adjusted to maintain the Bar staying level & parallel to the Trigger. Also, one thing I’m wondering: the Pre-Accutrigger Actions don’t have that tiny hole drilled for the leg of of Accutrigger spring, huh? (Photo of the spring on Accutrigger below) Did you drill a hole? Is the spring just resting against that leg not in any hole?

I circled the vertical leg that inserts in the hole. If you don’t have that hole, it could be the answer as the spring is being further preloaded & likely not very consistent.
https://i.ibb.co/f4K0cLV/0940-EFD7-52-B8-4297-A9-AA-27-E5-B5-BD88-CA.jpg (https://ibb.co/3B8hJQ5)

[ky-n]

Ok, yeah… I was thinking that. Well, I’m sure you already know that set screw needs adjusted to maintain the Bar staying level & parallel to the Trigger. Also, one thing I’m wondering: the Pre-Accutrigger Actions don’t have that tiny hole drilled for the leg of of Accutrigger spring, huh? (Photo of the spring on Accutrigger below) Did you drill a hole? Is the spring just resting against that leg not in any hole?

I circled the vertical leg that inserts in the hole. If you don’t have that hole, it could be the answer as the spring is being further preloaded & likely not very consistent.
https://i.ibb.co/f4K0cLV/0940-EFD7-52-B8-4297-A9-AA-27-E5-B5-BD88-CA.jpg (https://ibb.co/3B8hJQ5)

Tiny drill bit and very careful use of a Dremel made a nice little hole for it to sit in. I'll try to remember to get a pic of the installed trigger tomorrow

[LDSILLS]

The safety is stiff moving to the SAFE position, it moves to the OFF SAFE easily. The part I am calling the safety bar is this part:
10500

The rifle is pre Accutrigger with a F41xxxx serial number.

I had the same issue with my old Accutrigger. It too was on a 12BvSS.

I originally thought I had a misalignment of the Safety Bar notches with the Safety Bar Travel spring. After several removals and inspections that was not the case.

Then I started playing with the Overtravel Screw. At first I was adjusting it with too much aggression. The Safety Bar either would not move to the safety position at all or if it would move to the safe position it would allow for firing.

Then I decided to go into fine adjustment mode. I gently moved the Overtravel Screw until it just touched the Safety Bar. When the Safety Switch would not move I would back the screw out less then a 1/16 of a turn. I continued do this until the Safety Switch covered up the red dot on the receiver and moved smove. All the time ensuring the trigger could not be pulled and allowing a fire. I moved the safety to center position and still no fire. Finally I got it. But again the screw was moved very little off the Safety Bar. Noe-the-less it was positioned off the Saftey Bar and "NOT" touching it.

Of course later on the internet I found info to ensure the Safety timing was correct for an accutrigger they recommended touching the Overtravel Screw to the Safety Bar and backing off ~1/4 turn. I suppose that is about where my Overtravel Screw sits.

What happens is the Overtravel Screw puts pressure on the back of the Safety Bar. Because of this the spring will inherently exert less pressure on the notch for Fire which is located on the front of the Safety Bar. When you move the safety switch forward the spring has to jump into the two remaining slots on the Safety Bar Thus when you move to the Safe position it hinders that jump if there is to much pressure on the back of the Safety Bar where the Safe Position Safety Bar notch is. It is not friction from the the Overtravel Screw to Safety Bar that controls the SAFETY.

Thus it's really not a true trigger Overtravel Screw, it's a Safety Adjustment screw. If you think of it that way instead of a means to stop the trigger from bottoming out. Adjustment makes more sense.

NOTE: This the Screw is free floating thus is will need the application of a good thread locking glue on it. NO RED LOCTITE!

[Dave Hoback]

Are you talking about an Accutrigger or a 3-screw trigger? Not sure which screw you are speaking of, but some of what you’re saying sounds a bit confusing. An Accutrigger has no Overtravel stop screw. It has a Trigger Spring Adjustment screw, and a Safety adjustment screw. The 3-screw trigger does have an Overtravel stop screw. There is the Sear Adjustment screw in front; the Safety adjustment screw in the rear & the screw in the middle is the Overtravel stop adjustment. It is a true Overtravel stop adjustment. If you you are referring to the screw in the Safety Bar, that is not an Overtravel Stop screw, nor is it a Safety adjustment screw. It is adjusted to maintain the height placement of the Bar and keeping it parallel to the Trigger. It does control smooth operation of the safety.

[ky-n]

Today I took everything apart, worked on the safety and it now is supper smooth moving to either position. Checked over the sear and trigger, there was really no flashing or burrs to be found, really surprisingly smooth for what it is. I did take a fine hone and gently rolled the edges in case there was something my calloused fingers could not feel but stayed away from the two critical ones. I also polished all the areas in the trigger bracket and sear that come in contact with one another plus the sides of the trigger at the pivot pin even though it does not come into contact with the trigger bracket thanks to the two .010 shims I added to eliminate most of the side to side movement. Oh and the spring is NOT compressed any at all, it is barely in contact with the receiver and fortunately has so far never failed to set properly. After all of that and some more dry firing it is breaking just shy of 16 oz., still a bit more than I would like but I can live with it. I cannot understand how others are getting the trigger down to single digits, not that I want it that low.


10503

[Dave Hoback]

Not everyone is instantly getting single digit ounces with it. That’s a misconception. Your result after some more use and parts settling down are exactly as I thought. As it’s already come down considerably, I’m sure added use will bring it down further, until it reaches its full break in point.

However, don’t hoop & holler if it won’t reach 6oz on your particular setup. Remember, yours is a retrofit. Even so, I’ve come across more than a few Model 12 owners who’s target Accutriggers would not reach that magical 6 number! Once again, this is yet another reason I have never owned a trigger pull gauge. I setup my triggers to the point it feels good. I don’t try chasing some number in outer space, letting the gauge tell me if my trigger is adequate. LOL! Just not a fan. But, that’s just my point of view. Your results may vary. :adoration:

Not everyone is instantly getting single digit ounces with it. That’s a misconception. Your result after some more use and parts settling down are exactly as I thought

By The Way…. ​Not for nothing, but you have the Trigger/Sear pin in backwards. The pin should be inserted on the Sear/Bolt Release Lever side. (Picture below)

https://i.ibb.co/2t4MHf4/397-B45-B3-C655-43-CA-85-A5-579-CA1-F750-AA.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/CBszRmG/63-B6-E763-C6-BE-4-D15-8004-0-CFE34-D23949.jpg (https://ibb.co/8M401NZ)

[ky-n]

However, don’t hoop & holler if it won’t reach 6oz on your particular setup.

By The Way…. ​Not for nothing, but you have the Trigger/Sear pin in backwards. The pin should be inserted on the Sear/Bolt Release Lever side. (Picture below)



I do not want it in single digits that's just to low IMHO, just want it down as close as possible to what SAV-2 pull weight was. No problem reversing the pin, easy fix, I put it back the same way it came out of the previous trigger assuming it was correct.

Thanks for the help

[PhilC]

FWIW, I have 2 target AccuTriggers, one massaged by Fred the other a retrofit to a model 10 action by the previous owner, both are exceedingly smooth but neither will go to 6oz reliably. For my use I am quite content with their safe, consistent 8 - 9oz.

[Dave Hoback]

I do not want it in single digits that's just to low IMHO, just want it down as close as possible to what SAV-2 pull weight was. No problem reversing the pin, easy fix, I put it back the same way it came out of the previous trigger assuming it was correct.

Thanks for the help


I’m pick’n up what you’re put’n down, pard.;) I agree… not looking for single digit myself. A pound or a bit lighter seems right to me pretty much all the time. But then, again, I don’t use a gauge to measure so….eh:smile-new: I can honestly say, mine doesn’t feel like it’s 6oz. either, at the lowest setting. It’s definitely lighter than my worked over standard Accutrigger, but don’t know by how much. Although the Safety blade spring on my standard Accutrigger is lighter even than the Target Red blade & spring, but that’s a custom setup I did. One thing though, it feels nicer now with shims & especially the Overtravel Stop I added. I can’t stand all that extra Overtravel. BLAH! :ambivalence: