Light primer strikes

[DiRTY DOG]

I'm getting some light Primer strikes on my recent build. It's a 2006 model 12FV. It never had light strikes before with Fed 205 primers for many thousands of rounds.

I bedded the action in a B&C stock, added a Criterion barrel and RifleBasix-1 trigger. New load uses CCI 450 primers. Light strikes happened immediately about 1 out of 6 rounds. Usually they'll go off on the 2nd or 3rd attempt but not always.

Firing pin protrusion measures 0.053". Original firing pin spring, I have a new Wolf extra power sping in the mail. This is likely the problem, right? Old weak spring is not hitting hard enough on thicker 450 primers?

Bedding does not touch the sear or trigger. Bolt internals are extra clean and well lubed.

Not excessive head space, it does it on both virgin and 1x fired brass with 2 thou shoulder bump.

Could it be the new RifleBasix-1 trigger?

Well known moderate load:
20 Practical
32gr Vmax
cci 450 seated to crush
Starline brass virgin
25.5gr 8208xbr
20 thou off lands
velocity: 3810 fps over 15 rounds

Light strikes:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53790292013_9dd26ea462_c.jpg

Fired. Moderate load, not hot.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53790388059_b401d13e40_c.jpg

[Rocketvapor]

You changed barrel, trigger and primers all at once?

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Bottom picture shows "cratered primers". Excess headspace. "Brass too short for the chamber".
Next in line in pierced (blanked) primers. Headspace lets the firing pin move the case forward in the chamber, (FTF and soft strikes) primer tries to back out of the pocket and gets cratered.
Me beating a dead horse BUT, first guess? Brass too short for the chamber (headspace) NOT a barrel issue. Firing pin pushed case forward in the chamber and you get FTF or soft strike. Once the round fires, brass gets blown out to match the chamber size. Neck size only and re load and make sure you DON'T push the shoulder back (again) and end up with the same issue.
Real easy to check. Pull the bullet out on the FTF round to a slight jam into the lands. Single feed if needed. That will hold the case head against the bolt head.
And NO you don't need a new firing pin spring OR the bolt head bushed.
Might consider annealing just in case the brass gets too hard and won't move like you want when resizing.

[charlie b]

I agree it is probably a headspace issue.

But, did you also disassemble the bolt? You should have when checking headspace while installing a new barrel. When reassembled did you use any grease on the interior of the bolt? That's a bad thing usually. All it takes is a small bit of grit to get in the FP area to mess it up. I either leave mine dry or I use dry graphite to lube the insides of the bolt.

[PhilC]

Agree with NorCal and Charlie, something isn't right with headspace. Did you use a gauge or one of your previously fired cases (my preference) to set headspace? Your firing pin protrusion is actually deep, .035" - .045" is plenty, check out this FAQ topic - Light Primer Strikes (http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?513-Light-Firing-Pin-Strikes)

[DiRTY DOG]

It's a new 20 Practical build. I used a Forster 223 Rem go-guage to set the head space. Removed the extractor & ejector, set it to just barely close with no resistance. Dry Lube only on the bolt (Hornady One Shot cleaner and lube.

Loaded with virgin Starline 223 brass necked down to 20 via Redding type-s die and bushings. Did not bump the shoulders at all on virgin brass, measured with a Hornady comparator. Bolt had slight resistance closing on loaded virgin rounds. Had multiple but irregular light strikes.

Measured shoulders of fireformed brass, it barely moved compared to virgin. Annealed, FL sized with tupe-s die and bumped shoulders 2 thou measured with the same comparator. Loaded again and had the same irregular light strikes.

Puzzled how it could be the head space when it fits so snug with minimal shoulder movement.

[DiRTY DOG]

Pressure ladder here. Started top left at 25.6 and continued as shown. The last round would not fire. The 2nd to last 27.6 had a sliiiightly flatter Primer than the others but still NO ejector imprint and no hard bolt lift. Velocity was getting high per Garmin Xero but as expected. Primers on low loads look exactly the same as mid to high loads. Circled loads are light strikes that would not fire with repeat attempts. (The 5 rounds on the far right are 26.4gr used to zero the scope).
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53791316775_c38607c3ec_c.jpg

This load is:
20 Practical
24gr NTX
cci450 seated to crush
Starline brass
25.6-27.8gr 8208xbr
20 thou off lands

[sharpshooter]

Trigger change is the key element. Once you changed the trigger, it changed the timing, resulting in a shorter firing pin fall. Less travel= less impact energy.

[DiRTY DOG]

Of course my firing pin spring needs to be replaced, it's almost 20 years old and well used.Not sure if it's the cause of light strikes, but it still needs to be replaced.

I also suspect the trigger, just not sure what to do from here.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

In the last picture, all primers look to be cratered. Still suspect a headspace issue. NOT BARREL HEADSPACE. Brass issue!! Too loose and primers trying to back out and getting punched. Still got a few that FTF? Increase the OAL so the case head stays against the bolt head. Go from there.

[pdog06]

If you think it’s the trigger, You could put the old trigger back in and see if it goes away. Just to rule something out.

[DiRTY DOG]

Virgin brass (no shoulder bump) has resistance when closing the bolt. How is that loose?

Fireformed brass gets the shoulder bumped a hair under 2 thou and does not have resistance when closing the bolt.

Primers look the same either way. Has light strikes either way. Literally exactly the same.

[sharpshooter]

Not saying it couldn't happen, but in 35 years I've never seen or experienced a firing pin spring go weak enough to have misfires.....however, that cratering tells me that there is a lack of energy after the fact. The firing pin still needs from 15 to 18lbs pressure to support the primer after detonation. Without the support, the dimple in the cup will back out from peak pressure, and /or blank the primer.

It could be caused by several things: disassemble the bolt and check the components. If there has been primers blanked before, there might be primer slugs, a broken lock washer or even a broken spring.

[LDSILLS]

My 2 cents. One thing I noticed is the movement of the strikes on the primer head in your photos. Maybe I am wrong but that indicates to me a dragging firing ping spring. Or it could indicate an elongation of the bolt head firing pin hole. OR BOTH!

Factory Savage firing pin springs have a tend to bunch in the bolts firing pin tube. In other words they are far from floating. In fact older pin springs will drag on the bolts firing pin/spring tube. In the photo below you will see the waviness of the factory spring.

Now if you combine that with a loose, elongated or a few mills off center for the fining pin hole in the bolt head you will indeed have issues with occasional light primer strikes.

In this photo you can see a non-modified firing pin spring and its bunching. (waviness)
http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=703&d=1669832217&stc=1
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For assurance I wanted a floating firing pin for consistent firing pin to primer dent. On Dave Tubbs websites I purchased one of his Savage springs. The results are linear shaped spring to reduce any potential drag on the bolts firing pin tube. Then I had Fred at SavageShooters bush the firing pin hole on the bolt head. Fred also set firing pin pressure.

This photo shows Tubbs spring installed with the Savage pin on top. Note the linearity when compared to the exploded bolt photo above.
https://i.ibb.co/SK4vnJG/IMG-1790.jpg

Hope this helps!

Larry

[DiRTY DOG]

My bolt & spring is the same setup as your Pic. But apparently Tubb stopped making Savage springs more than a decade ago.

Many top benchrest and F class Shooter's recommend replacing the firing pin spring every year because consistent and correct ignition is critical to accuracy.

[Texas10]

Looking at the pictures of your FTF's I am amazed at how much your firing pin floats around. WAAAY off center in some cases. That and a crater that looks like a single scoop of ice cream out of a gallon tub suggests a whole lot of clearance between your firing pin and bolt head. Did you also re contour your firing pin? Something looks awfully suspicious. Any after market parts in your bolt? I'd start by measuring your firing pin dia, then bolt head hole for fit. You can get it bushed to a tight fit if it's sloppy. I also polish the aft threads on the firing pin so that the keyed washer slips by without catching.

[DiRTY DOG]

No aftermarket bolt parts, all original. Zero modifications, all factory. It's always had sloppy Primer craters but shot very well.

[DiRTY DOG]

That and a crater that looks like a single scoop of ice cream out of a gallon tub suggests a whole lot of clearance between your firing pin and bolt head.Maybe my bolt face has a dish shaped deformation from "heavy" use? Or maybe I just got a crummy one from the start? A dished bolt face would cause primer flow right. Maybe a new bolt head is worth a try in addition to a firing pin spring?

From PTG bolt head product description: This Pacific Tool & Gauge Bolt Head is a precision machined, drop-in replacement part for your Savage 10 Series rifle. Perfect for use in benchrest or F-class competition rifles that fire thousands of round per year, PTG's Savage bolt head is not subject to the quick deterioration or bolt face dishing that Savage factory bolt heads tend to display after a high volume of fire. The result is a drastic reduction in primer flow and case head rounding over time.

[Robinhood]

I am interested in a closeup of the firing pin radius also.
I have seen a lot of dished Savage bolt heads from the factory. Not sure if that is wear or not. Never had a case head convex shaped to mach a dished bolt head.
Never rule out Sharpshooter's opinion.
Probably not significant but at .053" firing pin protrusion you have lost .015" -.020" of travel. Maybe set it .035"- .044". Make sure that the Cocking Piece is set correctly rather than backed off to reduce bolt lift.It should be set whee the C.P. Pin is just off the bottom of the ramp.

[South Prairie jim]

Pressure ladder here. Started top left at 25.6 and continued as shown. The last round would not fire. The 2nd to last 27.6 had a sliiiightly flatter Primer than the others but still NO ejector imprint and no hard bolt lift. Velocity was getting high per Garmin Xero but as expected. Primers on low loads look exactly the same as mid to high loads. Circled loads are light strikes that would not fire with repeat attempts. (The 5 rounds on the far right are 26.4gr used to zero the scope).
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53791316775_c38607c3ec_c.jpg

This load is:
20 Practical
24gr NTX
cci450 seated to crush
Starline brass
25.6-27.8gr 8208xbr
20 thou off lands
None of those primer strikes are centered except one or two.