I'm going to go with a 20 guage shotgun, using slugs.
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I'm going to go with a 20 guage shotgun, using slugs.
(shrug) I'm not saying your point is wrong, just the definition. I know jack all about shooting black bears, and you seem to know quite a bit. From what I've seen of them I would feel perfectly comfortable shooting them with my .30-06 and Barnes TSX 180 grain, but that's not based on anything other than my experience with similar-sized critters.
KeS
38-55
i would say the old dirty-30 would do just fine or maybe a 35 rem sence black bear arnt that big compared to there big brothers
How's that relevant to the topic of this thread?
30-30 works just fine for me. My shots may tend to be a little shorter than you are planning though.
I am planning my first bear hunt next fall and am already debating which gun for the job. This thread has been helpful. I'm torn between either my old heavy Weatherby in 300 weatherby mag, my Savage in 270wsm, or my TC Omega .50 throwing .290 grain Barnes TMZ's (my favorite deer gun!) or find a 325wsm barrel for my Savage...decisions decisions...
well if you have the money and dont mind doing it there is allways room in the safe for another barrel ;-} the 325 route sounds like a winner to me not that any ofyour wouldnt do the job just to have another option
I think the 338 RCM would work in your WSM action too. Yet another option for another barrel.
Where does this mindset come from other than obviously effective marketing that we need magnum this and WSM that to effectively, efficiently, and humanely kill deer and black bears?
What did folks kill bears with prior to all the magnum mania?
A post earlier said the last two bears were with a bow...and there's talk about the 7mm Rem Mag being too light? Really?
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a bear with my .260 Rem or even .30-30. A buddy of mine put one down, DRT with a .30-06 last year. Stood 6'4" and over 500 lbs. DRT. No need for anti aircraft guns for black bears.
I wouldn't shoot a black bear beyond 150 yards with a .30-30, but the .260 is more than capable. 6.5x55 is one of the most popular calibers in Europe for game up to and including elk and moose. I'm sure those high BC/SD, long, heavy or caliber bullets will do the trick.
I'm a meat hunter and have no desire to blow my game in half or have the internal organs blended into a smoothie.
I don't care if it's a magnum or not, I still prefer a larger caliber. No they're not grizzlies, but black bears are still tuff and I want something that I feel more confident in penetrating their hide and muscle. If you feel fine with a 260 then go for it. You're entitled to your opinion and preferences the same as anybody else. A larger caliber with a heavily constructed bullet isn't going to blow the game in half, but it will penetrate deeply to get to the vitals. And the effectiveness of the 7mm wasn't questioned because of its speed or the size of the cartridge it was the size of the bullet being questioned. If you're comfortable with a 260, to each their own, but some feel more comfortable with a larger caliber. That doesn't mean that something smaller won't work too.
I don't hunt black bear but I live in Pennsylvania and know many who do. Any 30 caliber with a 150gr or heavier bullet will do the job just fine on a black bear. The 30-06 or the .308 are two good ones. Heavier ones will also work, along with a bow or cross bow.
Dave
( I don't hunt em as I don't like the taste of em)
Hornady puts Black bear in the same "medium game" (50-300 lb) as caribou, deer and antelope. Using their calculator (http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator), one can conclude that a 6.5 mm (.260") bullet of standard construction (CoreLokt, PowerPoint, GameKing. Etc.) traveling faster than about 1700-1800 ft/sec should be adequate. This minimum velocity also happens to correspond with the threshold velocity for reliable expansion in these standard bullets.
By this standard, the 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, and larger should work. As it happens, a number of folks have taken black bear with the cartridges and are very pleased with the results.
But saying "X caliber and larger will work" isn't always the case. The .308 is mentioned, yet the 260 has superior ballistics and terminal performance. My point is that larger isn't always better. To each his own is right, but the "no replacement or displacement" argument doesn't apply to ballistics and KE. That's my point, not that you can use the minimum.
If you have a weatherby in the closet, I would not think twice to bring it. That's my all time favorite hunting cartridge.
I would agree with the above that the 260 or the 6.5x55 would both perform better than the .308 with proper bullets, but I mention the .308 because of its popularity.
Perhaps a large part of the problem with discussions like this one is that there's a fair amount of ambiguous use (and flat out misuse) of terminology going on, which results in a lot of miscommunication. When someone says "bigger" in this context, are they referring to bullet diameter (caliber)? Bullet weight? Energy? Some combination of the three? Are we talking about bigger size, or more "power"?
There's also an unfortunate tendency to use "caliber" as a synonym for "cartridge", which adds to the confusion. Speaking in terms of caliber is nearly useless in a discussion about adequate killing power.
"To each his own is right, but the "no replacement or displacement" argument doesn't apply to ballistics and KE." True because KE relies heavily on velocity. I am part of the "no replacement for displacement" school in that I believe a larger diameter bullet, at an equal velocity to a smaller diameter will hit harder. As we've said to each their own but I'll take the larger caliber for black bear and up. A 45-70, even when loaded hot doesn't have as much energy as a lot of other smaller caliber (bullet diameter) rounds but when it comes to large game it has proven it's penetration capabilities time and again. I really like the 6.5mm's a lot but personally won't use them on bears.
efm77
If the larger diameter bullet weighs less than the smaller diameter bullet, at the same speed, it doesn't hit harder.
Kinetic energy doesn't use diameter to calculate the energy.
It is all about mass and velocity.
EK = (1/2)mv2
Look.....it's just a black bear. Here in Pa they get killed every year by arrows, .260's, 30-cal of your liking, and big thumping-arse 8- mm or 45-70's loaded for (I can't help it) BEAR!! They all die when (and that's really the most important part) hit in the right place.
But, no matter how they die.....they still tase like..........bear. (ick).
Dave
I for one don't argue with physics.
However, the term "hit harder" is not a technical term and therefore can be interpreted in any number of ways.
From the point of view of my small brain, it seems pointless to debate subjective terminology like that.
I will suggest that a larger diameter bullet MIGHT (but not necessarily WILL in all cases)transfer a greater percentage of its Kinetic Energy to the target animal.
:nono: Please, please, lets be careful not to let this thread disintegrate into another thread similar to the .223 versus 5.56 NATO thread elsewhere on this forum.
Also, please remember that the OP asked what your FAVORITE (Caps and bold to emphasize, not because I am shouting) Black Bear caliber. You and I can have different favorite calibers and/or cartridges and be equally successful at the hunt. No argument of mine, regardless of how logical it seems to me at present, will change the fact that caliber X or cartridge Y is your favorite one for any specific purpose.:thumb:
"If the larger diameter bullet weighs less than the smaller diameter bullet, at the same speed, it doesn't hit harder."
Well I guess I didn't elaborate enough on that one. I certainly didn't mean a lighter bullet. You are correct there. That's one of the major points to having a larger caliber to me, to get more weight.
"Kinetic energy doesn't use diameter to calculate the energy.
It is all about mass and velocity.
EK = (1/2)mv2"
Already knew that. That was kinda my point. With a larger diameter you can get more mass because you can get heavier bullets. Look we all have our own opinions. How many times do I have to say it? Like I said I prefer larger diameters for larger critters but if you want to use a 6.5mm have at it. It's all personal preference. I never said they wouldn't work. I've tried to give me opinion and why I feel that way the same as everyone else here but never meant to start an argument or have formulas that I already know shoved at me to try to prove that you're right just because you like a different caliber from me. Sorry if I offended anyone. This thread has gotten way off topic here so I'm done.