Got off the phone with Chris from Benchmark today. It costs $160 to do a complete action, and that includes sandblasting and cleanup as well. Not a bad deal considering what you're getting!
Kevin
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Got off the phone with Chris from Benchmark today. It costs $160 to do a complete action, and that includes sandblasting and cleanup as well. Not a bad deal considering what you're getting!
Kevin
So what's the general consensus when it comes to breaking in the barrel prior to sending it off to be nitrided? I think I've seen it go both ways so far.
Kevin
Im really really tempted to send in my first action to get done. I know bobby from freedom gunworks had quoted me before at $100 for the action and $25 for the bolt. I wouldnt be surprised if that went up by now.
Does anyone have the price for H&M to do a complete action or just the barrel? I may just do an action for now and do the barrel at a later date.
Brian
H&M will do the barrel, bolt, bolt handle, action and even the trigger if you want for 200, call shade up and talk with him, tell him Russ sent you..
I think im gonna hold off on the barrel for now but i do want the complete action done. Do u have a contact number or is any number on their website ok to contact shade at?
Brian
just call the main # and ask for him... il be taking 5 or 6 guns in, in a few weeks to get done, including a entire LRPV in Tan..
Tan? I thought the only color was a blackish blue depending on if its polished or left a normal matte?.
Whats the typical turn around time?
Brian
a few days to a week on turn aroundQuote:
Originally Posted by airaddict
https://sites.google.com/site/freeba...lonite-and-qpq
If you have SS part "this can ONLY be done on SS", H&M can do this..
"Tan" Nitide.. same corrosion resistance and same lubricity as black... but not as hard.
Normal barrel SS is 35 to 45RC stock, black will get it to 70RC, the tan is in the 50's
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9950/mptan.jpg
1 of a kind.... just had a rifle "tan" nitrided..
only 1 company does this, and they have done pistols in the past, this was the 1st full rifle they have done, they are the OEM nitrider/melonite for S&W, Spikes, KRISS, Robinson and a few others...
"Tan" Nitide.. can ONLY be done on SS, same corrosion resistance and same lubricity as black... but not as hard.Normal barrel SS is 35 to 45RC stock, black will get it to 70RC, the tan is in the 50's
http://i.minus.com/jbb551YZilmaOi.JPG
http://i.minus.com/jjsnV2SCWHXQ9.JPG
http://i.minus.com/joaHJ8z47rsrv.JPG
my review of the Black nitrided guns i did in the past is here
https://sites.google.com/site/freeba...lonite-and-qpq
http://i.minus.com/jAWYKOHOV5gL1.JPG
more pics here
https://min.us/mdyTh2V#35
This from a barrel manufacturer: Nitriding will not help with throat erosion. Now the rifling in the barrel will last longer but here is the rub....that doesn't matter as after nitriding the rifling and throat are at 70 Rockwell and your reamer won't do that....ever, so you can't re-chamber a nitrided barrel; nor can you "sink" the reamer in and "freshen the chamber". There is no valid reason to do this to the interior of the barrel. Actually you are shooting yourself in the foot. And having a "fresh" barrel nitrided will extend the break-in period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aircraftmech76
I will have my action and bolt and, most certainly, the outside of my barrel done. Money very well spent there.
Please don't get all up in my face over this as it is what a qualified source told me. If you disagree, by all means, please share the issues with me and everybody.
John
tests disagree with that..Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jonzmith
http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Barre...0%20rounds.htm
http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Barre...arrel%2022.htm
http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Barre...20test/SBs.htm
If you wanna shoot yourself in the foot ask a "barrel manufacturer" to recommend a treatment that will prolong barrel life. Honestly do you think anyone is going to tell you to do something that will hurt their sales? You really need to consider the source and get some facts. He may really believe what he is saying but is that because he hasn't looked, hasn't tested and just doesn't want to know? Shouldn't be so hard to determine if this does or does not work. So far all you have is a few facts about what the treatment does to the metal and that it can't be machined later thrown in with a guess that it doesn't help control throat erosion. Not to mention all the down sides mentioned should not be relevant if barrel life is extended. A lot of testing apparently shows this may help extend barrel life. Opinions are great and some are backed by a lot of experience but there are a lot of these treated barrels in the field and shooters reporting extended life. Before you make a choice and comment to others on the subject get a little more information. I'd love to see some testing that supports the barrel makers opinion if you have any. I've seen enough positive data from multiple sources to not discount the idea based on one source. Can you provide any support of the comments that you have reported? Who is this "qualified" masked man? ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jonzmith
Thank you Ring.
I will add that I am at 2.5 times the barrel life after Nitriding my 6.5 WSM barrels compared to none Nitrided barrel in the same caliber. I have a friend at roughly the same round count with the same caliber and both barrels are begining to show throat erosion. However the average round count on a none nitrided barrel years ago when the world began wildcatting the 6.5 WSM was averaging 400 rounds. I am just under 1000 rounds.
Neal
Throat erosion is caused by flame cutting, this occurs when the barrel is hot.
If you can keep the barrel cool, either by shooting at a slower pace or actively cooling it you should not see erosion.
Ring,
I'll add my thanks to mike's. Those are good links you posted. Your response was exactly what I wanted and obviously the forum benefited from your input. As I said :If you disagree, by all means, please share the issues with me and everybody."
Thank you,
John
Rino,
Perhaps not knowing me better, you might have thought I was being "coy" when I referred to a barrel maker as my source. I wasn't. I repeated what he told me accurately as far as I know but he made those statements in the privacy of a personal communication and till he gives me his permission to quote him in public his comments will be off the books. That's just plain ethical behavior and personal consideration. I will get back to him and see if I missed something, get his permission, and then I will re post on the subject to satisfy only you. No one else became accusatory and others just provided the informative contradicting info for which I asked. I must not be the only shooting enthusiast that has gotten what appears to be information that is at odds with the common wisdom.
FYI and hopefully to shatter your seeming abject lack of faith in barrel manufacturer's integrity in general: I was asking the mfr. to nitride my new $450 barrel. He assured me they offered that service, quoted a price and a delivery time for my barrel. The delay was less than two weeks and not an issue. He also knew that it was probable I would ream the lands to adjust my free-bore at a later date. He also obviously knew that I was having a 6mm BR Norma chambered and that that particular round is not a barrel burner and i could expect a 4 or 5 thousand round life span( I am told). Who would want to stretch that to 8? I'll be dead and gone long before the event.
Adding to my confusion, I know a shooter and smith that is familiar to this forum that has 9 barrels made by this Mfr. I make that out to be $3,600 invested and that doesn't include shipping. Given this man's success and that he can purchase anything out there, barrel wise, he must have faith in the Mfr. Also he doesn't have all his barrels nitrided but I haven't inquired why some aren't. What I did conclude was that I certainly didn't have "all" the information. I didn't think that I was coming across anything but humble in this. I am a virtuous man and it is my humility of which I am most proud, as virtues go. Get it? ??? :o ::) :D
Thank you for sharing all that Rino,
John
ahhhh.... all i said was "tests disagree with that.." and posted said tests... not to mention all the big name mfg's that have run there own long term tests, like S&W, SIG, LWRC.....
i didnt make any commenents about you or what u said..
is nitriding a barrel that allready has a good life cartrige needed?... nope...
but nitrading does more then just that...
just compare facts, not opinions...
+
increase in bbl life
increase in hardness
increase in lubrisaty
increase in corosion resistance
-
u can rechamber or set back the chamber
like any other finish, if not done by people that know what they are doing, it can be bad
cost is 50 to 200$
Not disrespecting anyone with this analogy but find it representative.
I grew up on a farm/ranch and driving cows and horses. If one got the first cow or horse into the water the next animals until the entire herd would follow.
40 years of smithing and wildcatting gave me a education on how other people do whatever it is they do. Thousands of people for decades have AI'ed cartridges because in some cases there is a noticable increase in speed and one can use factory ammo if available. It was my experience more times than not that there wasn't enough velocity increase for the expense of the rechamber.
I never liked the look of the 3006AI or 35Whelan AI long neck. Some 20 years after I started I learned that Rocky Gibbs did not like P.O.'s 40 degree shoulder because in some of the calibers internal pressures built up before the desired velocities were acheive. I went the Gibbs route 20 years ago and a 35 degree should except in the minicoop series they have a 30 degree shoulder.
Just because all these people are doing it doesn't make it the right way.
On the first 4 Benchmark barrels I found NO fouling of any kind in the barrels. SO I presumed since there wasn't any, I had the next 5 barrels
Nitrided prior to me ever touching it. One of those barrels I purchased from a Vender without ever seeing the barrel and it was a Savage takeoff in 300RUM so according to the Vender only factory shot was put through the barrel. When I received this cut down and braked barrel the first 3 shot group was .1 and every 3 shot group thereafter was in the .1-.2 area without exception.
SInce I am a machinist and have been in this industry for 40 years I am sure I qualify as somewhat knowledgable person. Everyone has an opinion about something. Just like the times people told me I could or could not or should not do something because there wasn't a presedence. I wouldn't be shooting a 458 Lott, 510 Rogue or a 338 Edge out of a handgun platform. But after building the 510 Rogue there was a very large thread with the title,( when is big too big) Then I put the Edge in a Striker and other back yard opinion literally came out of the wood work stating the Savage action could not safely handle the pressure. That I needed to purchase a $1200. action build to handle the big cartridge. The following year Savage released the 338 Lapua which has an even larger diameter case than the Edge and that pretty much made the nay- sayers quit talking.
Because of Nitriding I quit smoking bullets into puffs of lead at 4800fps in a 3 groove 224 minicoop (NO Breakin) and added another 400fps to the cartridge/barrel combination. I built a 6.5 WSM improved that has awesome accuracy after a 1000+ rounds down the tube.
Though I have never purchased one of these barrels I do know that for decades people purchased barrels from 2 or 3 barrel makers and it sometimes took a hundred rounds to break a barrel in. Before the copper quit flaking out of the bore. By all means, these need to be smoothed up before Nitriding.
This is my opinion based on experience to be used as information and NOT for anger
Neal
NOOOOOOO NOOOO,
I misspoke. In my previous post I THANKED YOU FOR A MOST APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. I haven't changed my mind on that...truly. I typed Ringo when I meant to type RINO. I still luv ya Ringo....it is Rino that is still "iffy".
My apologies again,
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ring31
No, I went back and reread my post.....I got it right. I wasn't talking to you Ringo.
Neil,
That last qualifier for nitriding "rough" barrels AFTER break-in is much appreciated. The nitriders I spoke with said that they could do it "after" without problem.
You mentioned two different nitriding processes that you have used...can you clarify the differences in performance. I know I am interested and I think others are also.
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jonzmith
read my full review here...
https://sites.google.com/site/freeba...lonite-and-qpq
Ring,
I hadn't seen any of the videos you provided links for. They are all superb and I thank you for them. I am sold completely on this process. My only reservations have been treating a "new" and unbroken-in barrel and treating one that you expect to re-bore the chamber or set back the lands. I still think it is safer to wait to do both but apparently...that's just me. Neil, with the unimpeachable results he gets from his guns is the hands down horses mouth "source".
Thanks again Ring...sincerely
John
if u plan on doing it, do it in the fist 60 to 100 rounds down the tube... u "shouldn't " do it to a old barrel... here is Y..
a new match grade barrel that is lapped and has no need to be broke in, but the throat will need broke in from the chamber cut, this can be fixed in the 1st 60 shots.
if u nitride this before the throat is broke in, it will never break in, BUT, that dont mean it still wont shoot great.
do it to a old gun, or a gun with 100+ down it, and u "can" make that barrel less accurate... how?.. well if you have fired it enough to start to induce fire cracking in the bore, the heat of the nitrideding process's "can" cause that to get worse.
also, NEVER nitride a chrome bore... unless u like a 4moa gun...