Excessively stiff bolt lift, even after mods.

As per a number of posts lately here is what has happened so far:

Brand new Stevens 200 long action. Upon receiving action I noticed the bolt lift was stiff, very stiff. I've owned a number of Stevens before and maybe it's just me, but this one seemed worse than the others.

Took the bolt apart and polished the inside body, the cocking sleeve and the cocking ramp.

Installed a .38 case with ball bearing, also installed a spacer of the same thickness.

I've also tried various amount and types of various lubes/oils.

None of these mods has made a discernible difference. The bolt is still stiff and gritty, exactly the way it was before the mods.

Thoughts?

At this point I think your only recourse for a decent bolt lift is to send it to Fred Moreo at Sharpshooter Supply for tueing and timeing. Last I heard it is an $125 option. Those who have had it done love it. Wont make the gun more accurate but certainly more fun to shoot.

El Lobo

make sure the action screw isnt screwing in too far under the bolt head

Or the scope base screws.

If it was stiff from day one, hoe about sending it back to savage
I have remmy small ring that was fixed under warranty,
They ground some in different spots and it is usable now.

The bolt operation is do to incorrect geometry, polishing will not help.

Per 82 boys post, it is a problem endemic to Savages. Fred Moreo corrects the geometry, that why I mentioned his timing and treuing job. Am I correct on that 82 boy?

El Lobo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 82boy

The bolt operation is do to incorrect geometry, polishing will not help.

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Yes Sir,
The smith did not give me the details of what was done, but to my untrained eyes I saw some shiny surfaces on the outside.

josebd's suggestion first...

nsaqam's suggestion second...

Stockrex's third...

Don't piss $125 away on something that's probably a simple fix...

(I speak from experience BTW...had the same issue and a little bit of grinding to the front action screw took care of it!)

Excellent replies as always.

I will check the action screws, no scope screws in at the moment.

As far as having it timed and trued by Sharp Shooter Supply- I am really leery to go that route. I have absolutely no doubt that the mods they do help lift geometry etc, but I have heard so many horror stories of excessive wait times, work not being finished per their own timeline, difficulty in getting in contact with them etc that I really don't want to send them anything that I'd like back this year. It seems that there are those that get their work back in a reasonable amount of time, and those who are stuck in limbo.

Going to try to polish up a little more and check the above mentioned issues and post again, Matt.

Am I the only person who's never had excessively hard bolt lift on a Savage?

I've had at least a dozen and although I machined a bolt lift kit for one of them it was more to see how they worked than anything else.

Maybe the lefties are machined better or something.

I can't say I've noticed anything difficult about it, but I only have one so comparing for me is between other guns- in that regard it's a little easier than my Win mdl 70.
Only time I had hard lift on my savage was when I get a little crazy on load testing and/or dirty chamber. Look at the camming action on the back of the bolt, this is what is pulling the cartridge from the chamber at the same time as cocking correct?

It seems like a smooth bolt lift is luck of the draw. I have a 10FP action which is smoother than my T&T actions from SSS. I also have a model 12 which was almost a 2 hand bolt lift.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattri

Installed a .38 case with ball bearing, also installed a spacer of the same thickness.

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This caught my eye. You want to shorten the BAS by the thickness of the case/bearing. Adding a spacer in addition to the case would make the bolt lift worse.

Andrew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yorketransport

It seems like a smooth bolt lift is luck of the draw. I have a 10FP action which is smoother than my T&T actions from SSS. I also have a model 12 which was almost a 2 hand bolt lift.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattri

Installed a .38 case with ball bearing, also installed a spacer of the same thickness.

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This caught my eye. You want to shorten the BAS by the thickness of the case/bearing. Adding a spacer in addition to the case would make the bolt lift worse.

Andrew

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The spacer mattri is describing is not internal, but external. It is, in essence, a washer that moves the BAS back, which functionally, is the same as shortening the BAS.
Here's a (blurry, but functional) photo of a spacer on an Axis. The spacer is the silver colored disc just forward of the BAS:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q...t%2520side.JPG

Shoot several hundred rounds through it. That should loosen it up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thomae

The spacer mattri is describing is not internal, but external. It is, in essence, a washer that moves the BAS back, which functionally, is the same as shortening the BAS.
Here's a (blurry, but functional) photo of a spacer on an Axis. The spacer is the silver colored disc just forward of the BAS:[/color][/size]

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Interesting. I've never seen a spacer like that before. Thanks Thomae!

Andrew

I have recently discovered what I believe to be a flaw in the geometry between the rear baffle and the bolt handle "ramp" on some bolt assemblies. I believe the bolt handle was the problem child. If you have another savage bolt that works smoothly replace the bolt handle and possibly the rear baffle from the other rifle and try it again. If it smoothes out.... voila'. I fixed one by carefully grinding the ramp of the bolt handle to meet the dimensions of the good bolt handle (not an easy feat) to make it function smoothly.

Here is a picture of the ramp and the spacer. The spacer matches the thickness of the thrust bearing assembly I used.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...h/100_0346.jpg

Good luck
Fish

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stangfish

I have recently discovered what I believe to be a flaw in the geometry between the rear baffle and the bolt handle "ramp" on some bolt assemblies. I believe the bolt handle was the problem child. If you have another savage bolt that works smoothly replace the bolt handle and possibly the rear baffle from the other rifle and try it again. If it smoothes out.... voila'. I fixed one by carefully grinding the ramp of the bolt handle to meet the dimensions of the good bolt handle (not an easy feat) to make it function smoothly.

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I found that in most aftermarket bolt handles, the dimensions are close to perfect, at least in the ones I have handled. I would highly recommend getting a new bolthandle, preferably a longer one, to help ease the bolt lift, I got one and it was the best and one of the cheapest upgrades I made.

Yep.

All my Savages wear a Stockade 5/8th" handle.

Love that handle.

[quote=nsaqam ]
Yep.

All my Savages wear a Stockade 5/8th" handle.

Love that handle.
[/quo]
Ditto, Give him a call, lotsa good info.

Thanks to all who posted- some interesting results today:

Had previously polished the bearing surfaces, the inside of the bolt assembly and the cocking sleeve.

Took it to a buddy's house and he looked at it as well. Upon further inspection it needed a little more polishing, not just on the mentioned surfaces, but on the faces of the washers holding the firing pin assembly together, the front of the bas and a few other parts.

Got all that sorted and it was better, but not great. Took everything apart again and noticed the cocking ramp had some deflection to it. The angle was not the same the whole way up the ramp. Used a dremel to smooth this out, changed the angle a little bit and smoothed the route the pin takes by quite a bit. Bolt lift was improved by a noticible amount.

Noticed that the spring tension from the firing pin mechanism was causing binding/friction. Used washers to reduce the amount of preload on the bolt assemble.

With everything re-assembled the lift is smooth and light- function is unaffected, couldn't be happier with the results. Will post a follow-up after putting a few rounds through it. Thanks again, matt.

http://www.steyrscout.org/savscout.htm

plz check the Bolt Smoothing part...

The first pic under bolt smoothing is most indicative of where I spent most of my time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattri

Used washers to reduce the amount of preload on the bolt assemble.
Thanks again, matt.

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FWIW, You can also reduce the amount of preload by removing the firing pin assembly and unscrewing the cocking piece (the round nut with the hole through it) . Just don't unscrew it completely.
Then you don't need external washers.

I tried that but found that the cocking pin wasn't moving all the way down the ramp that way. I'm sure there are a dozen different ways to improve the bolt geometry, most are probably better than what we did but on this rifle it made a huge difference, it's absolutely not the same gun.

easyest fix is to lengthen the bolt handle
my 10 year old friend- who is even small for 10
got a axis & couldnt work the bolt handle -see my post in axis edge rifles-
I lenghtened the bolt handle by 1' & he has no problems now
polishing & shimming helped a small amount - but leverage can move the world
& if you have a welder its a fairly easy job - I weld a 5/16 bolt onto a 1' steel ball
then cut existing bolt knob off & add about an inch overal length
after a litle filing ,sanding with emory cloth & cold bluing it looks great
whole job takes about 30 -45 min
I know I could just buy longer bolt handles -but I like mine -
they just look better & I like a perfectly round knob -vs other styles
if you try this be sure to make the peice of 5/16 bolt pointed on both ends like a pencil
so it will have more weld surface area -this makes it a lot stronger