Whats up with Savage??

First off I love both my Savage rifles, they both shoot GREAT, but while reading the posts on this sight, I have noticed that some of the guys have had problems with weak ejection on their 22-250's. Well ever since my Model 12, 22-250 was new it has had weak ejection, when I pull the bolt back, it takes the spent case out of the chamber but thats about it, I useually have to use my fingers and take the spent case out of the magazine, or if it does eject the case out of the rifle, it just pucks it out of the rifle, it deffinently does not "throw" the case out of the rifle. It never really bothered me because I don't hunt, I just target shoot, so there's no need for a fast follow-up shot, but I started thinking that if it's not right, I'd like it to be right. I called Savage and talked to customer service, and explained to the guy what was going on with the rifle. He asked me if I reload and I told him yes, then he started telling me that if my loads are too hot this could cause the problem, I could tell that he was spinning. I told him I load for both my Savages, and that my 10 FCP ejected the cases just fine, and that if anything I load on the lighter side, and that I experianced this problem with factory loads as well. Then he told me that it could be a bad spring, or a stuck spring, or a bad ejector ect ect. He told me he could send me the parts, but I told him I never worked on a bolt, finally he told me that since it's the first time they would fix it for free, and that there would be a three day turn-around. I sent the bolt in to Savage today, and hopfully I will have it back by the middle of March. Hopfully this will solve the problem, but what gets me is that the customer service rep seemed put out over this whole thing.

They offered to send you new parts without inspection or verifying a problem and you're complaining? Feel free to switch brands.

Yeah - I don't see how they could do much better by you.

This is not necessarily directed towards you just an observation about customer service issues and the internet.
I was a customer service rep for a sporting goods company for 3 years. I think some people believe if you do not cower to them and you get right to the problem, instead of wanting to listening to how they "feel", they think you are not giving them good service. I also have found that you can be as pleasant and nice as possible but if you do not give people the answear the expected or wanted they think you are not offering them good service, no matter how unrealistic there expectations. I have also found that only about 40% of the facts about a situation end up on the forums.

Back to your situation.
It sounds like you may have received service from a busy customer service rep. that was trying to get you taken care of and did. If you would have listened to him you may have learned how to disassemble you bolt and found your fix to only take about 5 minutes. Just saying. ;D ;D

You should expect great customer service and you should not be talked to like YOU are the problem. Thats theyre job to be accommodating. I believe you just got a bad apple or he was having a bad day. Although I have had great customer service at some other places but unfortunately its always with an attitude but the problem gets fixed...part of it I guess and I didnt say I like it but part of it sometimes. I hope you dont need customer service very many times in the future but I think the percentage of happy customers far out weight the unhappy ones and I hope you end up feeling good about it when your done. Good luck with your bolt and I bet the problem will get resolved one way or another.

I didn't get smart with the guy, I was as pleasant as I could be, but what good are the parts if I don't know how to install them, or what if it is something else? After all I'm not a gunsmith, or have ever needed to take a bolt apart. He just seemed as if he didn't want to be there on the phone. I'm not one of those hard to satisfy people, if he would have insisted on sending the parts I guess I would have had to say OK, and then take the bolt to a smith to get fixed, but I wouldn't call that taking care of the customers. Now if I had experience taking the bolt apart, then I would have prefer ed to have the parts sent, as there would be no turnaround time. If the bolt comes back and it works as it should, then I have no complaints, Savage took care of the problem in a timely manner. And if the Savage customer reps are so busy that they can't handle the volume of calls coming in, then maybe Savage should hire a few more reps. I had Kimber install a set of night sights on my 1911, after six months, they didn't glow in the dark anymore. I called Kimber, I didn't hear any spinning as to what might be wrong with them, or offers to send me a new set of night sights. they told me to send the slide in, and ten days later the slide with new night sights was back on my gun, I didn't get on the Kimber forum and complain about Kimber because I received good customer service from them. Maybe I'm old fashoned but I be leave that when theres alot of competition between companies for a customers hard earned dollars, and when the customer has to call the company for help, the customer shouldn't be made to feel as if his phone call is unwanted.
Paul

Thanks Coffee Break, at least you understand what Im trying to say. And KRP, you think that maybe I should switch brands because I want to be treated fairly by a company that got my hard earned dollars!!!??? Sounds to me like maybe you've drank too much Savage kool-aid. I feel sorry for you.
Paul

gundogblue
All you have to do is a search on this sight and you will find out how to repair any part of your Savage Rifles.
Also if you pay your $12 a year you can go to the archives. There is a million dollars worth of info there.
If you have more questions , post in here and everybody will help you the best they can.


Hope you get your bolt fixed.
Slenk

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Originally Posted by gundogblue

..... I didn't get on the Kimber forum and complain about Kimber because I received good customer service from them.

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Ah, but did you get on the Kimber site and say how pleased you were with their customer service? Typically, people only lodge complaints about products and services, they don't bother to report the good results.

Regular readers of any firearm (or almost any other product) forum will conclude the products are almost nothing but problems since those are the only times posters write. Much rarer are postings saying how good the products are.

The retail business has a saying: "A happy customer will tell three friends, an unhappy customer will tell ten."

Ya know as a matter of fact I did tell the kimber guys how please I was with Kimber's service.
Paul ;D

Sounds to me like Savage is treating you good. If you want p** poor customer service try Ruger on for size.

No Kool-Aid here, I just fail to see how you weren't treated fairly. Call any other gun company with the same problem and see what their response is. Call any company as a matter of fact and see if they'll send you parts to fix a claimed problem without having it inspected and verified, not many are going to do that. Most guys around here would jump at the chance to be sent new parts to fix a problem, then their rifle is only down for the 15 minutes it takes to replace them. Apparently you just wanted to be told to send the rifle back so you could be without for several days or weeks. To each their own.

I am the owner of the FVSS 22-250 who has posted many times here concerning the ejecting problems with my gun. I know Eric at Savage by first name. I have personally spoken to him at least 5 times. Three times he has sent parts for my bolt. One time I sent the complete bolt to him and Savage promptly sent it back. "STILL NOT FIXED", then I took the gun to two local gunsmiths (I love the gun) and one of them called Savage and again, Savage sent the gunsmith parts. There customer service is great. I own three Savages rifles and wouldn't take a million dollars for the other two that drive nails and work perfect. By the way they are a FP308 and a 270.

I think the point is: Everyone knows there is a problem with the 22-250 and even though Savage is working with us and sending us the parts, the "problem" is still present. I personally would love to have mine ejecting the shells as my other two Savages do! I think Savage may have to redesign the bolt. This is the issue that needs to be addressed and "THEN" I think we will all be happy!

I have mixed feelings about his report. I have had zero issues to call Savage on so cannot say anything good or bad, except that it's good that I haven't needed them I guess ;D.

Anyway, the only gun issues I hav e had are with a used Marlin 22 WMR semi auto, and a Henry 22LR lever. On the Marlin it was bought through a local dealer, and had failure to fire and eject issues. The dealer took it back, no problem, good service.

On the Henry, it was bought new and shortly after buying it it developed failure to eject issues. I emailed Henry about ti. Your emails go DIRECTLY to the company president. He wrote back the next day asking for more details. I described some burrs I had found and thought they might be the problem. I asked if I should try to stone them smooth. He said "go ahead". This was the company president telling me to work on their rifle!

After another trial, it didn't fix the problem, and that day he ordered a UPS pick up from my house. As he promised, the rifle was back at my house, ONE WEEK FROM THE DAY IT WAS PICKED UP. Sadly it still had problems. Another email, another pickup order, and 4 days later, a brand new rifle!!!! Zero issues with that rifle.

Now THAT is customer service.

First of all, let me say that I deal with Savage on a daily basis, and I know all the people who work in customer service. Eric is a really nice guy, but he is new. He handles complaints the way he was trained. He does not work on guns, he only fills orders and tries to help customers that have problems that he is trained to solve. Evidentally the standard procedure for ejection and extraction problems are to replace parts until the problem dissappears. Like I outlined before, the problems that arise with extraction and ejection are a combination of parts with accumulating tolerances. Sometimes a different extractor will fix the problem,with a tolerance of a few thousandths, it's all it make take. The gun manufacturers cannot control the size of the ammo, and if it's not close to mean specs., so the manufactering tolerance in the bolt face diameter has to be accomodating for wide tolerance.

Now for the good news......

Since I have been receiving many calls with this problem, I began to study it closer. I have done many different things on various guns to remedy the problem, which included: making custom extractors, opening up smaller bolt faces to the correct diameter(.223 to .308) , making larger ejector pins,and I even bushed a bolt face to reduce the diameter to correct size.
Then I tryed something yesterday that made sense, and it is very simple. First let me explain.
The spring pocket diameter in the bolt head (under the extractor plate) measures .150". The extractor spring measures .145", but the detent ball only measures .125". When the detent ball is centered in the detent of the extractor by spring pressure, it has .025" clearance between it and the hole dia. This make for side to side slop that will not compress the detent ball and spring. When a cartridge is pressed in the boltface, the extractor,ball and spring can be deflected approx. .0125" before the detent ball compresses the spring. The result is that amount of movement will not spring back to center, essentially leaving the extractor claw not grabbing that much of the case.
Is everyone following me on this?.....the fix is simple, use a bigger ball.
I have some in stock, they measure .140", thus reducing the non-returning slop.
I have tryed this on several here in the shop and had 100% success rate, although there may be a combination of factors out there on a rifle that it may not help, but it sure as h#ll won't hurt. ;D

Sounds like a great fix!

;) pay attention good stuff

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Originally Posted by KRP

No Kool-Aid here, I just fail to see how you weren't treated fairly. Call any other gun company with the same problem and see what their response is. Call any company as a matter of fact and see if they'll send you parts to fix a claimed problem without having it inspected and verified, not many are going to do that. Most guys around here would jump at the chance to be sent new parts to fix a problem, then their rifle is only down for the 15 minutes it takes to replace them. Apparently you just wanted to be told to send the rifle back so you could be without for several days or weeks. To each their own.

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KRP
You say I just want to be without my rifle for serveral days or weeks!!!??? Do you know how STUPID that sounds??? What flavor is the Koolaid?
Paul

GUNDOGBLUE A wise man once told me "he thinks as he is{coolaid)". Nuf said

I didn't know that so many on this forum are in the tank for Savage, I politely tell of my experience with a customer rep from Savage, giving me the impression of not wanting to talk to me, then all the hierd guns come out criticizing me, one duffus even says that I purposely wanted my rifle to go back to Savage so that I could be without it for several days or weeks, and I'm the bad guy???? Thats too bad, Savage makes fine rifles to be sure, and I guess this is a good forum as long as you walk in lock-step with many of it's members. I've never been a "yes man" for anyone or anything, I don't follow blindly right or wrong, if a company makes a fine product thats great, but if that same company has a short coming I will let it be known, but evidentally thats not how you should behave on this forum, it appears that if your a member of this forum then Savage, and everyone who works for Savage is beyond reproach. ???
Paul

I don't think calling names on a forum is the answer to this problem. I guess all of us view your problem with Savage as very, very minor. Obvious to us that you have little experience dealing with other manufacturers. Savage offered you the best possible fix, just like everyone else mentioned earlier. I have 6 Savage rifles and 1 of mine is worse than yours about not ejecting the spent case. I know how to fix it but honestly it is not even on my radar of things that really need my attention. I sure as heck am not going to go on a forum and "wank" cause the whole world owes me something. ;)

Did you call the guy at savage a duffus also? It is funny how peoples true colors come out when they here something they did not expect or want to here. You can referenc my first Post.

I've been drinking the dealing with the public kool-aid. The philosophy that the customer is always right is suppose to be the company's NOT the customers. When it becomes the customers philosophy the system does not work and you end up with a sense of entitlement and you become very hard to please (AKA imposable).
And no doubt it ends up on the internet. Just my 2 cents.

PS I think what KRP was saying was it is so easy to change out you must have wanted to send it in, as literally ANYONE that can operat a rifle let alone reload could change it out in no more than 2 min. with no help. I think I could probably do it in 10 seconds LITERALY.

jc,
Im glad you can change out a bolt in 10 seconds, nothing modest about you!!! I see everyone who flammed me is a paid member, and Im not, maybe that has something to do with it. Oh well Im sure not gonna loose any sleep over it. I hope you all enjoy the Koolaid
Paul

http://emoticons4u.com/mad/011.gif

Can't we all just get along ;D

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Originally Posted by gundogblue

jc,
I'm glad you can change out a bolt in 10 seconds, nothing modest about you!!! I see everyone who flammed me is a paid member, and I'm not, maybe that has something to do with it. Oh well I'm sure not gonna loose any sleep over it. I hope you all enjoy the Koolaid
Paul

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Never claimed to be modest, just honest. Oh by the way so can my wife. ;D

on another note I am kinda upset about this, I paid $12.00 for a membership here and I did not get any of the free koolaid GDB said everyone else got. >:(

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Originally Posted by gundogblue

jc,
Im glad you can change out a bolt in 10 seconds, nothing modest about you!!! I see everyone who flammed me is a paid member, and Im not, maybe that has something to do with it. Oh well Im sure not gonna loose any sleep over it. I hope you all enjoy the Koolaid
Paul

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Honestly is seems like you did want to send it in, because that is the only solution you would accept. As stated taking the bolt apart is hardly a big deal. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill on that aspect. Maybe they did get a little short with you but you really are making this a big stink about an issue where the solution first was to ship you the fix for free and then to take the bolt back and fix it for free. It certainly could have gone a little worse for you than to have it fixed for free. Take it for what all its worth but outside of a little attitude, which you seem to have in abundance making me question how it really went down, you still were offered twice to have it fixed for free.

<-- No coolaid, basic member (but plan to upgrade to paid as i find the site very usefull.. )

having worked in phone support (computers not guns... rarely does a computer blow your arm/face/head off)

It sounds like the conversation condenses down to:

Rep: the spring/ejector/etc is messed up in the bolt, I&#39;ll send you the parts, it&#39;s easy to change the parts out.
Customer: I am not comfortable working on the bolt
Rep: Ok, send it in and we will fix it and return it to you.

I can say this is normal, and good service unless you pestered you to avoid the return to factory service. If your not comfortable changing the parts it&#39;s in their best interest NOT having you do it.

If you did, and then it went blew up you would likely come back on them. At a minimum they would have to show up in court and show it wasn&#39;t their products problem... (ie cost them $$)

so... not to pick, but it sounds like at a minimum fair customer service, arguably good service in today&#39;s climate.

PS: not trying to jump in and dogpile you, just offering my 2 cents. :)

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Originally Posted by gundogblue

I didn&#39;t know that so many on this forum are in the tank for Savage, I politely tell of my experience with a customer rep from Savage, giving me the impression of not wanting to talk to me, then all the hierd guns come out criticizing me, one duffus even says that I purposely wanted my rifle to go back to Savage so that I could be without it for several days or weeks, and I&#39;m the bad guy???? Thats too bad, Savage makes fine rifles to be sure, and I guess this is a good forum as long as you walk in lock-step with many of it&#39;s members. I&#39;ve never been a "yes man" for anyone or anything, I don&#39;t follow blindly right or wrong, if a company makes a fine product thats great, but if that same company has a short coming I will let it be known, but evidentally thats not how you should behave on this forum, it appears that if your a member of this forum then Savage, and everyone who works for Savage is beyond reproach. ???
Paul

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I think the "duffus" he was refering to was me. ;D ;)

I had the same problems out of my savage model 11 in 308 winchester. What I found was the metal slide on the bolt (kinda golden lookin) was poorly lubricated. I used liberaly used a lot of liquid graphite to lube it up. After a few rounds of shooting, about 20 or so, the bullets started ejecting how their supposed to. No, I squirt some rem oil in that point and I have no problems since. Hope this helps

Again, all very interesting.

I will call Sharpshooter for the parts today, and I will lube the bolt as two previous post suggessted this!

Pictures of the bolt would be nice.

I to will become a paid member soon as this is a very helpfull site. I have learned a lot. People have tried to talk me into going with Tikka, but I stick with my proven Savages!

By the way, I recieved my bolt for my 22-250, put about 40 rounds through it and all worked perfect, didn&#39;t matter if I pulled fast or slow, I pulled the bolt back as slow as I could. All in all, it "worked". Spent shells ejected!

My gun is about 4 years outside of the warranty. Since i was basically forced to install a new extractor on the bolt, I, and a local gunsmith suggested, lubing the extractor. It didn&#39;t work immediately but as more rem oil and liquid graphite started getting in the extractor&#39;s movement things got better and now it works just fine. just put some where the gold lookin part is.

Never have got any of my 22-250&#39;s to eject worth a hoot. As I most likely am bench shooting it doesn&#39;t matter to me much as I like to pluck the brass out instead of picking it up off the ground.

Well No Luck, is this just Savage Rifles or all makes? Also, how do you like you 243?

Savages, and I like 243 alot

Have a Model 12 in .204 that does the same thing and i do hunt which makes it even worse. Taken to two smiths and still does it:(

It&#39;s been a long time since I posted on this thread, but, I started having the ejection problem again. Long story short, I had SSS build me a bolt, I slipped it in, and have not had any problems since.

I believe Fred put a longer ejection pin in the bolt with a stronger spring. Works perfect!

Gunna try a new ball of larger size and spring see what happens