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I'm out testing some 140g Berger VLDs right now and noticed that the bullets collect dust....never really paid much attention until today as I've been have consistencie issues(which I think I've figured out and will post about later)anyway I'm wondering if you guys think dust causes any issues?
Obviously barrel ware would be one.
Honestly LR, I think you worry about every little tiny thing too much lol. If I spent as much time as you do on reloading and all, I'd never get to shoot!
I keep everything real simple and shoot as much as I can!
Dust on bullets is probably so incredibly negligible considering all the carbon and copper and what not in a barrel that you'd never be able to know if that was an actual issue.
I'm the last one on earth who would accuse you or anyone else of being picky, I happen to be just a little "obsessed" myself at times ( Scales anyone? :p), but I seriously doubt dust would any affect on a bullet's flight or anything else for that matter.
Bill
I'm not really worried about it just something I thought of waiting for the barrel to cool between rounds. And yes I'm obsessive LW lol...but I've found over the years the more consistent you keep things the more accurate and consistent your loads will be. And trust me I shoot a lot...close to 5000 rounds last year....I like the tinkering part of loading as much as shooting plus I get bored easy and am always looking for better.
Just see too many people chasing an extra 1/8 of an inch performance through loading and the truth is most can't shoot well enough to actually determine that the load they selected is the best load. I've shot tiny groups with only trying 2 loads and sticking with the one closest to the speed I want for ballistic performance. My 243 I tried 39grs of H100V and got just under 2900fps and then bumped to 40grs and getting 2950 with 115gr DTACs. Both loads shoot the same. I don't feel a need to push them faster as it's already a laser. But every load I've ever put together shoots well. I strongly believe it's more the shooter than anything else in the picture. Even when it's all performing perfectly people just try to find something else to "fix".
Dusty bullets, eh?
Almost sounds like a country western singer.
Go find something more important to worry about. Things like - When was the last time you rotated the air in your tires?
i guess i should of started this thread "CONSISTENCE ISSUES" LOL....Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
i agree with you 100%...but im not chasing an extra 1/8" im chasing a consistent load...normally i do the same...shoot to speed of ballistic performance of the bullet and fine tune. now the problem is since ive changed my barrel i CAN NOT find a consistent load...case in point....these two groups were shot yesterday morning....
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/.../photo2-69.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/.../photo1-69.jpg
these groups were shot 2 hours later after i came home and loaded up 10 rounds of each and went back out to verify these loads...all brass is the same,same primers from same lot,same 140g berger VLDs from same lot,baring surfaces with in 0.000.5 of each other,neck tension the same,powder from same jugs,seated with a forster hand die and 21st century arbor press .001 into lands the same as the groups shot in the am...now the only difference was temperature 5 to 10 degrees warmer...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...s/photo4-7.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/.../photo3-34.jpg
now this has been the norm since ive changed the barrel...ive track checked the scope and have 99% ruled that out as an issue but may try my ATACR on it to be 100% sure...base screws are at 25"lbs,ring to base screws 65"lbs,ring caps at 25"lbs,front 2 action screws 40"lbs,rear screw 10"lbs...now if this was your riffle wouldnt you be wondering about what was causing this?
see the post above...like i said im NOT worried about it it was just a question WITH a reason behind it.Quote:
Originally Posted by fgw_in_fla
Well i would rule out anything gun or load related in comparing those results. Cant completly rule out the shooter in my opinion.
More likely the issue is slight differences in conditions not recognised by the shooter. As a rule the best shooting is done early in the day.
I know for a fact at Williamsport most shooters hope to draw an early relay. Some shooters will win their relay with a very good group.
Yet later the same day do poorly in the shootoff match. For that very reason, some wont hang around for the shootoff.
I'm not ruling out shooter error or weather but I was pretty much on my game yesterday and I've never had a 10deg difference in temp effect a load that much. I also agree that early shooting produces best groups...or at least for me it has but to go from tight groups to 3" groups? I am out now and testing seating depth...I which I haven't really played with past .005 off the lands...I just shot a group seated at .020 off lands and it looks like almost 1 hole so we will see if it holds up...I'm going to shoot one more group at .015 off then run home and get my hand die and arbor press and play with seating.
well now i feel stupid...like i said i havent seated any bullets deeper than .010 off the lands in this barrel and have never really had much luck seating deeper than .010 off the lands in any of the barrels ive shot with the exception of the factory barrel on my 300wm and 220g SMKs.
this was the first group i shot this morning...i shot one more group at .015 off the lands but it opened up a little...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/.../photo1-70.jpg
i stopped after the second group and went home and re-seated the other 15 rounds to .020 and loaded up 10 more at .020 grabbed my hand die,arbor press and mic and went back out. by then the wind was picking up and it was sunny and warming up...this is the first group i shot the second time out...got 3 rounds off before the wind picked up to about 10mph...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/.../photo2-70.jpg
this is the third group at .025 off the lands in a steady 10-12mph wind....im pretty sure the shot to the right was wind as all 5 rounds felt good and broke clean...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/.../photo3-35.jpg
i seated the last 15 rounds to .025 and shot them at 425yds...first round was a miss i was 1MOA high on my guessed dope which means this load is faster than what i figured...the other 14 rounds were all hits and accurate.
like i said i feel pretty stupid right now because i didnt think seating depth was causing the issues.
Glad you got it going your way
It never ends LOL but it is fun
good shooting
Jack
? I really don't know how jamming the lands, touching the lands, close to the lands, became the "Holy Grail" of reloading? Especially when some bullet manufactures recommend testing as much as .180" off the lands. I have a 30/06 that shoots it's best load .160" off the lands, in that particular rifle. I will admit, that early on I thought "chasing the lands" had a "cool factor", now I chase the "practical factor".
Good Shooting ... Jim :-)
One explanation is the holy grail of consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW Conch
If the bullet is into, touching or a hair's breadth away from the lands, the nose will be consistently centered in the throat. If using neck-sized only cases, the case will be consistently centered in the chamber. Hence everything is lined up and the bullet doesn't have to bend to get into the barrel.
The real question is "How much difference is made?"
I don't have a good answer, but I would bet that at least one of our true precision shooting brethren has done the test.
Understand that "JA". But It seems that sometimes, perhaps often, it doesn't work out that it leads to the best results ?
Jamming or very close to the lands has produced the most accurate loads in every riffle I've loaded for with the exception of the 220SMKs in the factory barrel that was on my 300wm and the barrel I just replaced on my 260. Now the reason that I was having issues being close or jammed in my new barrel is because it's chambered so long(free bore)and not enough of the bullet in the neck for consistent neck tension. It took me a minute to figure this out because at first I wasn't shooting over my chrony but once I did I found I was getting up to 70fps spreads and once or twice 100+FPS. After seating bullets .020-.025 the exact same load has 7-12fps spread consistently depending on ambient temps. I had this barrel chamber with a lot of free bore to shoot slower powders but ended up with to much free bore...with a139g lapua the COAL is 2.410.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW Conch
The first 50 rounds shot through this barrel jammed produced clover leaf groups but the next day the same load opened up to 3" so I adjust the charge and it shot well then the next weekend shot 3+" again.
you said that perfectly, i say that all the time! i like to refer to it like your polishing a bumper without fixing the transmisionQuote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
:-))
care to elaborate luke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke45
Dusty bullets? What......you guys don't wash your bullets? You would be shocked if you knew how much "garbage" is on bullets right out of the box. I learned this from a pig farmer years ago. I alway wash my bullets in lacquer thinner before I moly coat them, or even load them naked. After soaking them in laquer thinner in a glass jar, all of the fine copper flakes and other crud settles to the bottom of the jar like fairy dust. This crud will attribute a majority of fouling problems that seems to disappear once the bullets are clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
Ive been using acetone...i dont tell anyone any more because i get funny looks and the "it doesn't help" or "thats just a waste of time". I just started doing this after seeing all the crud that was on 100 bullets that i hbn coated. The hbn didnt work out so well for me but i continue to clean bullets.
basically you worry to much about every detail LOL ;) the vast majority of your accuracy will come from seating depth, powder weight and neck tension and brass consistency. things like dusty bullets basically do not matter unless your gun is shooting 5 shots in 1/10 of an inch every single time.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRange
Hi, my name is Bob, and I clean my bullets. :)
I clean the bullet with acetone before I moly coat it. And I wipe my ammo with a dry rag before I go shooting. Don't think it makes much difference in accuracy or otherwise, I just like clean stuff. My wife says I'm anal.
Huntin1
I have been following this thread since the beginning, and all I can say is, have you ever seen what a bullet looks like after it has gone though the rifling. I don't think any dust particles are going to have any effect on anything.
Dean
I'm a perfectionist lol....and the riffle is capable...the shooter is the problem...Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke45
then stop taking 10 minutes to reload each bullet and get out there and practice ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRange
close to 5k rounds last year ;) I'm really not as bad as I make myself out to be behind the trigger....I ranked 9th last year out of 54 shooters at our matches. The first match this year I shot a 24 with a crappy load...I'm expecting to shoot a better score this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke45
As far as loading goes your right I'm pretty anal about things but IMHO consistency is a key factor in accuracy.
As far as this thread goes...i was kind of at a loss as to the groups shooting a ragged hole then a few hours latter 3-4" groups so I was looking at every possibility....a few say it's the shooter but I'll be straight and say no it's not the shooter.....I've figured out the problem and have a load now that produces bug holes at 200yds,has a consistent ES from 7-11fps and dopes to 650yds are consistent from 40* to 80* when I get a chance I'll stretch it out and see how it groups.