112lrp 6.5 creedmoor pet loads ?

Hey guys new here just wondering what some of you have proofed as pet loads in your savage 6.5 creeds. Currently running a 112lrp in creedmoor had decent results running a 140vld over 36g of varget and cci br2 , experimented with cci #200s but not much of a difference. I've been floating under 1moa at 100 but would like to ring out the most from it , gun doesn't seem to shoot a bullet jammed or just off lands very well . With the berger vld the best group was actually seated .120" off lands. Same with 140amax they shot best a considerable distance off the lands. Still have some 140smk/140smk /120amax and 123smk to play with also have h4350 that I started doing my work up using but availability locally fell off so I'm back to using varget . Just wondering what some of you other guys have been getting for results on your handloads. It's still in a factory hs stock which is free floating barrel. Almost exclusively shoot from the prone except when I must bench it.

I believe varget does best with the 120's
if you can shoot h4350 your probably going to end up around 41-42.5 grains if you run a ladder test. I always work from the bottom up but always end up in that neighborhood, well with the two creeds I had. I know its over book but even hornandy's suggested load was 41.5 which is also over their published max.
vlds seem to like it about -.010 off the lands in my experience. you'll have to see what yours likes but that's my starting point.

aside from h4350 some ppl have been using RL15 and H414 with good results.

start low work up. you should be around 2750-2850 with the 140

if you have varget try your lighter bullets with it

heres my last ladder I shot Friday. 530 yrds

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...psp1pbwuuy.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...psnwfyzymy.jpg

also check some on the hide
http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...-6-5-creedmoor

Anyone tells you that they are getting 2800+ fps from a Creedmoor with 140-class bullets, is WELL over-pressure, If that doesn't bother you, then fine.
I did a bunch of Pressure testing with a Pressure Trace over christmas, an extra 75-100 fps will come at the price of 12-15,000 psi.

Tested RL-17, H4350, Superformance, and Win 760/H414.
All have done very well. I personally use Superformance and 760 for my mile shooting work, Really like the progressive pressure curve with Superformance. By the Trace, 17 was the most consistent for ignition curves, and OBT.

I never could make the Berger hybrids shoot worth a hoot, couldn't even trade them away...

I've personally never seen it, usually i'm 2700-2750. I've read a number of ppl pushing faster than 2800 though. I think 2013 factory ammo was pushing over 2800

http://www.65creedmoor.com/?topic=643.0

ya when i shot the vlds over 36 grain of varget it was using 4 seating depths per bergers tech team of .010 / .040 / .080 and .120 off lands and oddly enough it was the .120s that produced a touching group but didnt shoot a in the lands group as i was at that high end of varget charge and was starting to get some markings from bolt face. i had best results in my .30 cal rifle at .010 and had been the case with all the vlds id shot .

12 & 13 and then 5 & 6 looks close... do you film the impacts or do you walk down to the target each shot?

I filmed it all, bugs were getting me pretty bad while shooting, i'm goup shooting everything from 41.5-42.5, ill take the best and do seating test

Quote:

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Originally Posted by limige

http://www.65creedmoor.com/?topic=643.0

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Yes, I'm a member there as well. Hornady does not use canister grade powder, which is what we can buy. Also despite what Rob01 suggested, pulling a few bullets and weighing a charge is also a fools errand, as no factory loads powder by weight; it is all volume. Unless you knew what powder they were using at the time, what lot number, and the VMD for it; you can't correlate a weight to a volume.

Given the short chambering issues of some Savages, it wouldn't have surprised me if that the culprit of "pressure issues", but it certainly could have been a factory issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkker

Anyone tells you that they are getting 2800+ fps from a Creedmoor with 140-class bullets, is WELL over-pressure, If that doesn't bother you, then fine.
I did a bunch of Pressure testing with a Pressure Trace over christmas, an extra 75-100 fps will come at the price of 12-15,000 psi.

Tested RL-17, H4350, Superformance, and Win 760/H414.
All have done very well. I personally use Superformance and 760 for my mile shooting work, Really like the progressive pressure curve with Superformance. By the Trace, 17 was the most consistent for ignition curves, and OBT.

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You've said that before about being overpressure but I got over 2800 with factory Hornady 140's and Winchester 140's. Currently it's just a smidge over 2800 with with 41.7 gr of H4350. Have over 1500 rounds with that load, brass has several firings on them only tossed a few for loose primer pockets. No obvious visible pressure signs, primers look good, no stiff bolts, etc..... The factory loads are jumping 50 thou in my LRP and 25 thou in my stiller action.

and that's why I posted the link he quoted. my point was factory ammo was pushing well over 2800 which he claims is so far overpressure. I don't care how many grains are in the case, i'm talking about performance here.

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Originally Posted by Newsshooter

brass has several firings on them only tossed a few for loose primer pockets. No obvious visible pressure signs, primers look good, no stiff bolts, etc.....

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The problem with "visible pressure signs" is that they don't actually tell you anything reliable. It has been a very long time ago now, but it was all over magazines at the time. Several factories(all SAAMI members) were asked to fire reference loads and report pressures with Their Copper Crushers. The very same reference loads, with the very same SAAMI minimum spec equiptment reported pressure differences with IIRC a tad over 20,000 psi swings. Measuring over around the 45,000 psi mark is not consistently reliable with Copper Crushers. Just like how Lead Crushers(LUP) were originally used until they found they didn't work over a certain pressure; so they went to CUP. Then as pressures continued to rise, we went to Piezo or strain systems for current pressures.
WAY back around WWII when Olin was still manufacturing components and chasing G contracts, they would publish cartridge specs for their cases. In that time frame, they used Olin C260 alloy for '06 cases. That alloy was spec'd to be hardened to around 86,000 psi tensile strength.
So *IF* that is what your cases are, you won't notice case stretch until you approach those pressures. Until then you would say that "There are no visible pressure signs", when clearly you are WELL over pressure for the cartridge normal operating pressures.

Today, no one will tell you squat about their cases, so are they still built similarly? If so, then you won't notice anything until Ruh-Ro Raggy! Like-wise, there is no information available about primer cups. So if you don't know anything about the strength of your primers, the strength of your cases; AND you know that VERY carefully calibrated Copper Crushers cannot accurately report the pressure range we are working with, how on earth can unknown cases and primers report more accurately than the Crushers? The answer is that they cannot, and they do not. If you do not have a Pressure Trace system, or similar modern strain system with very high confidence levels for accuracy; the next best thing is velocity.
A good chronograph will give you a better idea of what is happening than primers/cases. That is very limited in view however, and another variable MUST be remembered, powder!

We are the waste market for the military industrial complex, canister grade powder is either blended to a consistency or toll milled by one of the Defense contractors. Varget & H4350 are resold to us by Hodgdon, who absolutely refuses to list ANY nominal specs about the powders that they sell. So what is the nominal BR variation? What is the nominal VMD variation? The Eurenco powders sold under the Ramshot name does give those numbers, and there is a VERY good reason why EVERYONE tells you to drop your loads by 10% when switching lots. THIS is also why essentially every book on the planet has different loading data, burning rate variations from different lots.
So assuming that you start low, the chronograph will reasonably tell you what is happening. Book data is fired in SAAMI min spec equipment, which is not what a production rifle is; so your velocities will be lower; ASSuming the same pressures. The only way to overcome velocity differences is with extra pressure. What the Chronograph won't tell you, is when a powder begins to run away. As I have posted here before, I showed a trace of a 308 load where the powder did run away and have some very nasty pressure spikes. The chronograph however showed totally normal velocity, and no "signs" outside of the Pressure Trace; which reported about 70,000 psi, twice, due to the spikes.

None of this is to be on a soapbox about loading too high. If you want to run higher pressures to reach a performance number, fantastic!! My point is simply to shed light on what is truly happening.

One of my fellow club members is working up a 6.5 SAUM and can do pressure testing, I'll see if I can join him the next time he heads out and check the pressures on both my 6.5's

That would be very cool, I think you will really enjoy it!
If he lets you test your rifles, you'll need to glue a strain gauge on your barrel 24hrs before testing. And it is best if you have a chamber cast done on your rifle, so you can accurately glue the gauge in the correct place and have barrel dimensions.

was just curious to see what other m12 lrp creedmoors most accurate loadings were . the 140vld loading did alot better using h4350, waiting to swing by local shop for some 140g berger hybrids and also anxious to try the new 130 hybrids

I have had really good results with lapua 139 scenars. They have consistently out shot everything I tested them against including 142 SMKs, 120 and 140 AMAX, 120 Nosler Ballistic Tips, and Berger 140s.
This has held in both 6.5 creedmoor as well as .260 Remington. I purchased the 139 Lapuas from Powder Valley last year. As soon as my supply runs out, I will go to 136 scenars.
My powder was 41.0 grains of AA4350.
Without a doubt, there is a lot of room for improvement. This combination shoots pretty well and is similar to the standard recipe for 6.5 Creedmoor.

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Originally Posted by jerry shaw

I have had really good results with lapua 139 scenars. They have consistently out shot everything I tested them against including 142 SMKs, 120 and 140 AMAX, 120 Nosler Ballistic Tips, and Berger 140s.
This has held in both 6.5 creedmoor as well as .260 Remington. I purchased the 139 Lapuas from Powder Valley last year. As soon as my supply runs out, I will go to 136 scenars.
My powder was 41.0 grains of AA4350.
Without a doubt, there is a lot of room for improvement. This combination shoots pretty well and is similar to the standard recipe for 6.5 Creedmoor.

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I tried the 136 Scenar's, they weren't any better than the 139's and they cost more. :)

Anyone using IMR 4350? I use this powder with virtually every caliber I own. I noticed a bunch of guys using Hogden 4350, but not IMR.

The new ruger rifle got over 2800 with a 24" hornadys 140 a max !

I tested IMR 4350. It was ok, but not really any lot better than H4350. AA4350 seemed to do a little better than either. Mostly I was trying to replicate factory loads with 140 AMAX. I had decent luck with Lapua 139 match bullets, but that's another issue.

that new ruger has me a little wet in the pants.....oh wait, this is savage shooters...carry on

Just purchased me a ruger predator 65... Lets just say the thing shoots amazing with factory ammo.

I have been shooting with imr4350 for about 2 years. When h4350 disappeared I switched and haven't looked back. Always avaible in my area and shoots great in my 260.

One reason so many folks used H4350 is that Hornady published it as the powder they used in the recipe on the factory ammo box. They didn't pinkie swear it was the best - just that it was what they used. I have seen commentary from some of their folks that suggests they were looking for a fairly good powder that could be obtained in lots of places and was not too finicky.
My own experience shows that H4350 works ok but that other powders can produce as good if not better results in the rifles I tested. I have obtained spectacular results with both Varget and VV N150 in both my .260 Rem and .308 Win rifles, so I suspect that it is probably easy enough to do the same with 6.5 CM.
In any event, I have been well pleased with the 6.5 CM. It's awfully impressive and easy to work with.

that may be your take on it but I know of several competitors that are dominating some F class shoots with creedmoors and swear by H4350. I've never had any reason to switch, always treated me well

I meant no offense and wish everyone well.