.223 Group size Picture thread

Hello, I figured I'd start a thread to show off group sizes and share reloading data for the .223, specifically in a bolt action.

Here's some of the group sizes I got out of my first round of reloading with Benchmark powder. I tried different bullets, weights, charges and seating depths. The info is marked on the target. All rounds were shot at 100 yards to see how they preform. Once it gets a little warmer out I'll do 200 yard testing and possibly 300,400,500 and 600 yard testing.

The rifle is a Savage 12FV recently rebarreled to .223 REM. Glass is Nikon Buckmaster 6x18x40. Rings are low Burris XTR. Base Ken Farrel 0 MOA. Stock is a B&C durramax. Action Glass bedded. Barrel is a Adams and Bennet. Trigger set to 1.5 lbs.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/0326001051a-1.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/FamilyPhoto1-1.jpg[/img]
[img width=337 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/0925001651.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/0925001653.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/0925001652b.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/0925001652a.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/0925001652.jpg[/img]
The bullet hole to the right of this group is a known flyer.
[img width=600 height=450]http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/0925001651a.jpg[/img]

Not the best groups but this is only a start. I plan on tuning the 52gr SMK so that is it truly a one hole group. They also need to be seated slightly deeper because they will not feed through the magazine. Once that is accomplished I will try them out on some ground hogs.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/stumpy400/P1010103.jpg[/img] 5 shots
[img width=600 height=450]http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/stumpy400/P1010102.jpg[/img]
The gun was originally a 300wsm. Now it's a 223 w/ SSS LVT, recoil lug, bolt handle, true and time, comp trigger and a douglas xx airguage no taper barrel.

[img width=253 height=450]http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/stumpy400/2010-09-11_20-06-53_399.jpg[/img]

On the 52 match bullets try N133 powder, this seams to be the ticket. Don't worry about getting the bullet close to the lands, some factory Savage barrel like to be jumped big time, so try to jump them all the way out to 90 thousands off the lands. (You may be surprised what you find) Another powder that has been reported to work good in the 223 is 8208XBR.

Nice rifle you got there stump jumper. I've found that seating them closer to the lands (when it was a .22-250) improved the accuracy quite a bit on the 55 gr. rounds. That barrel was a 1:12 twist. This one is a 1:14 twist so it doesn't like the heavier bullets as much. I would have gotten a 1:8 or 9 but they were too expensive. I only paid $120 for this barrel.

Savage 12FV with B&C Duramaxx stock. Factory (non-accutrigger) trigger tuned down. Bushnell Elite 5-15X40 AO scope. 100 yard 10 shot group ( there really are 10 rounds through that hole ) using FC brass, Hornday 75gr BTHP moly over 23grs of Varget, seated to fit in the magazine.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/onesureshot/DSCN1169.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=162]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/onesureshot/JSavage12FV223.jpg[/img]

Funny thing about this rifle, I shoot only moly coated bullets and have never done anything more than pull a bore snake through it once after each trip to the range. I have a couple other .223s, so I decided to do an experiment with this rifle based on one a friend is doing. He has fired several thousand rounds of moly coated bullets out of one of his .223s and not cleaned it. he does not shoot paper with it, just prairie dogs and the accuracy has stayed good enough for him. I decided to see how long I can go and keep decent groups. to date this barrel has between 700 and 800 rounds through it without cleaning, and the groups just keep getting better, lol. I figured once accuracy drops off I will try to clean it and see what happens. If it can't be resurrected, then I will screw a new barrel on it and go from there.

All the stars were in alignment when I shot this one last summer....I haven't been able to duplicate it since!
Done on a Harris bipod with a sandbag under the rear stock. 100yds. Moel 12 BVSS .223 cal.
Here is the best part; this was Federal Walmart ammo! I can hardly wait till I actually start reloading!
I stopped at 11 shots. I was positive I would screw up the next one and ruin an even dozen!
This Savage makes me look awful good!http://<a href="http://sports.websho...1UjdVAJ_th.jpghttp://thumb1.webshots.net/t/71/171/...1IFqKSJ_th.jpg[/img]
http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/87/87/0...1UjdVAJ_th.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wbm

One of the problems with moly is corrosion of the bore. Moly is hydrophylic and contains sulphites therefore when it attracts moisture acids can be produced causing bore corrosion. If you live in an arid area like I do then there is not a real problem but if not then tests have shown that moly can cause corrosion problems. The solution is to clean after shooting.

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/moly.htm


http://www.gsgroup.co.za/molyfacts.html

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We probably shouldn&#39;t turn this into a moly debate. I&#39;ll post up some pic&#39;s of my groups with my 223 with moly coated 70 gr bergers when I get home.

Thats not bad at all for factory ammo. Reloading is quite a hobby. I&#39;ve been doing it for about 6 years now and was able to produce 1 hole groups with my rifle when it was in .22-250. So after completing the first round of load development for the .223 I feel like I could produce those results again.

Nice group onesureshot.

"We probably shouldn&#39;t turn this into a moly debate" +1

Dennis, how could your possibly get those groups out of Adams and Bennet Barrel? We all know they cant do that. But on the other hand my .35 Whelen, unbedded in a laminate stock shot sub MOA with factory Remington green box 250gr at 100 yds the first group I shot after sighting in. My 7x57 A&B barreled, plastic stocked, unbedded rifle shoots sub MOA with handloads with 140 gr, bullets. I must have got thier barrels made on a good day. Would I go with A&B again? Hell yes.

El Lobo

Here&#39;s one of my groups, measured group size is in the lower right corner. This was shot with a factory savage 223 (not at target model) in a local IBS shoot at 600 yards. I&#39;ve got some better targets some where but don&#39;t feel like looking for them. lol This was shot in 20 mph gusty winds. My groups from the day before in 30+ mph winds were bad.

Load was lapua brass, CCI BR4, 75 gr moly coated Hornady BTHP match, over H4895.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/Asynjor469/223group.jpg[/img]

I always got vertical with one or two shots in my groups. Like in this target. After that shoot I swapped the barrel for a shilen 6mm BR. Already seeing much better groups, with very little load development.

hahah ellobo. I was pleasantly surprised with the barrel. I took a gamble with it because it only cost 120 as compared to 320 for the next best thing. As cheap as they are just shoot the crap out of them and when the groups open up buy a new one. My rifle is glass bedded but other than that I haven&#39;t done anything to the rifle to make it more accurate. A guy at Sinclair International told me he won competitions with a A&B barrel. They&#39;re blue is a little darker than the action but nothing real noticeable.

...A little light on your loads... ;)...I run on the upper end myself... 55gr Nos. at 26.1grs of Benchmark...

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/BV55.jpg[/img]

Not as good as some of you guys, but not too bad for a factory Edge....as long as I do my part that is.

[img width=437 height=450]http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa74/herm0162/223800x800jpg.jpg[/img]

"...A little light on your loads... Wink...I run on the upper end myself... 55gr Nos. at 26.1grs of Benchmark..." 1 shot, what&#39;s the twist rate on your barrel? It&#39;s 1:14 on mine and the 55 gr don&#39;t shoot as well. But the 52gr do shoot well. That&#39;s what kinda gets me. Only thing I can figure is it has to do with the shape of the bullet. HP vs the little plastic wedge in the V-Max.

82...sorry, I didn&#39;t post the particulars about the loads. The top target is 52 nosler comp in front of 26.2 grains of varget and measured .234.
The second one is 55 grain flat base bergers with 26.0 of varget measured at .112. both loads are set ten thou. off of the lands. The nosler load tested at 3350 in the 1-12 twist 26 inch tube on that gun. i got all the way up to 26.5 but it was no better or worse so I went back down. Lapua brass in both and shot @100

5 rounds 125-ish yards

[img width=600 height=400]http://lh6.ggpht.com/_5kErdS37uEg/TEh-EvXjcWI/AAAAAAAAAGA/WebDXvi18uQ/s720/IMG_4273.JPG[/img]

[img width=600 height=400]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5kErdS37uEg/TEh-GpQWzeI/AAAAAAAAACY/lciLIzBXaFE/s720/IMG_4275.JPG[/img]

[img width=600 height=400]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5kErdS37uEg/TEh-Ha3zQSI/AAAAAAAAAF4/zAbLS2nxQUY/s720/IMG_4276.JPG[/img]

...Dennis you&#39;ll have to push the 55&#39;s...50&#39;s, well not as hard...My A&B .221 Fireball shoots 52 grainers just about as good with 19.8grs of Benchmark...(..bottom..)

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/205.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/AB.jpg[/img]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1Shot

...Dennis you&#39;ll have to push the 55&#39;s...50&#39;s, well not as hard...My A&B .221 Fireball shoots 52 grainers just about as good with 19.8grs of Benchmark...(..bottom..)

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/205.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/AB.jpg[/img]

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Did you run out of plates??? ;D

Fireforming some of the new primed Armscor brass from Grafs & Sons in the ultra heavy barrelled 223 AI.

50 gr VMax
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223AIArmscorFF50grVM.jpg[/img]

52 gr HPBT
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223AIArmscorFF52grHPBT.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223AIArmscorFF52grHPBTx2.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/pXBR8208.jpg[/img]

Working up some loads....
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223aiBull.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/pBenchmark.jpg[/img]

Fireforming. This is a factory Remington 223 1:12 twist varmint barrel that I cut the stub off of, rechambered, and threaded for a Savage.
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223AIFF2AAdime.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223AIFFAdime.jpg[/img]

Still 223 caliber..."Super Duece" - 222 Magnum AI with 80 gr AMax. 300 yard group.
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/DueceAI300yd80grAM28H414.jpg[/img]

5 shot cold bore from a couple of 223 AI&#39;s.
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/5shotcold.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/5shotcold2.jpg[/img]

I guess this is a "group".....of one shot. :)

[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223aiVLPPD.jpg[/img]

22/6mm AI.....working up loads with a couple different powders.

Three shots in this hole.
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/226mmAI001.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/226mmAI002.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/226mmAI003.jpg[/img]

More 223 standard.
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/j223100yd.jpg[/img]

Load works ups for standard 223 - partial full length sizing and full length sizing.
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223partfllgth.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/223fulllength.jpg[/img]

dang, You guys have some pretty tight groups. If I get ambitious I&#39;ll go out in the barn and start refining my loads. It&#39;s 5:30 AM and it&#39;s already 36 degrees here in Northern Indiana so as long as the wind cooperates I&#39;ll do some shootin and post what I get. I want to make a steel gong today too. Not sure if I want to make the stand out of 2x4&#39;s or steel. I will have to carry it to whatever range I want to shoot at so weight is a concern.

Grrrr >:( LEE dies are junk! Went out to start reloading and the freekin shell holder had too much play in it which allowed it to slip over the case rim and the case got stuck on the neck expanding part of the die. Any recommendations on a good 3 die set? Thinking about getting RCBS.

SergNG Lets see them. The groups I shot were from last fall but that was right after I broke the barrel in. Haven&#39;t shot paper since.

I&#39;ve used lee dies to load .45 acp, .308, 243, and 223 with no trouble at all. I really like there collet die for neck sizing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennisH87

Grrrr >:( LEE dies are junk!

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Wow, I think I have said this a few time before.
I have a question why do you need a 3 die set?
The best dies I have seen have been Forster, for a bolt action rifle than I am looking to get the most out of it as far as accuracy goes. There micrometer seated is hands down the best! On dies sets for everything else I prefer RCBS, there customer service is the best in the business, and one of the best I have dealt with. There products are great!

..Serg...Alot has to do with weather conditions...Mine hardly go over 1/2" center-center...Or dime size groups if you want to call it that.. ;)..I use RCBS Dies myself...Always had good luck with them..Here&#39;s what I mean...Started getting bored with shooting in the same hole & I let a few fall out...lol..

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/BV1.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/BV2.jpg[/img]

A lot of the time, it is not the dies that are having the problem, but the press is not allowing shell holder, case, & die to line up.

Measure the runout on a loaded round. 0.002 is ok. 0.001 is very good, if achieved consistently. Less than 0.001 runout is awesome.

Now, couple that with IF you have a straight and true cut chamber, bolt/bolthead that are allowing everything to center, and good contact with the back of the lugs.....THEN you are in business.

As far as accuracy, some barrels, it seems, pour some sand in, find a primer to light it, and push the blemish 55 gr full metal jacket....and the barrel shoots bugholes with range pick up brass.

The next barrel, that you custom ordered, coupled with the lathe turned bullets, special brass imported to Sweden, drawn in Switzerland by their sniper team, with VV powder....and you are shooting 3" groups!

Call it luck? :)

Damn one shot, I hope you can get rid of that flinch ;D

El Lobo

"I have a question why do you need a 3 die set?"

Because I need a FL die for cases that were not fired out of my rifle, A neck sizer for brass I&#39;ve already shot out of my rifle and a seating die to do the obvious. I have a 3 die set for my .22-250 from Redding and I really like those. I will probably buy Redding again but they&#39;re kinda expensive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennisH87

A neck sizer

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Just pitch it! FL sizing is the way to go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennisH87

I will probably buy Redding again but they&#39;re kinda expensive.

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They are not worth the cost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ellobo

Damn one shot, I hope you can get rid of that flinch ;D

El Lobo

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...Flinch is gone..lol.. ;)...Really it was from not moving the stock all the way back up on the front rest...Let it slide too far back...

[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/nos.jpg[/img]

heres minehttp://us.mc457.mail.yahoo.com/vs/search?mode=attm&vsc=&p=my%

[img][/img]

This is the only bench groups shot with my McGowen 24 inch 8 twist re-barrel. 24.5 gr VihtaVuori N140, Sierra 77gr HPBT,Rem 7.5BR primer and Lapua brass is my go-to load. Won many 300 yard prone matches with this combo. ;D
[img width=600 height=311]http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/455mjd/009-4-1.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/455mjd/001-69.jpg[/img]

macon, For some reason your link doesn&#39;t work. To get the picture to show up on the screen upload it to photobucket then click the image button and copy and paste the direct link and it should work.

Stevens 200 in 223. Completely factory original, except for stoning the trigger engagement and backing off the tension spring a bit.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr268/slowpokeslim/P1050365.jpg[/img]

5 shots @ 100 yards, cold, clean barrel. Don&#39;t really shoot this one at the range much, it&#39;s a walking around &#39;yote gun. Nikon refurbished scope. Less than $400 in the rifle, all in.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr268/slowpokeslim/Stevens223wNikonscope-1.jpg[/img]