Got a crazy idea

I was wondering how fast and how quiet (contradictatory I know) a 22 cal lead pellet would be, when shot out of a 223 barrel, using ONLY a #209 primer?

Let me state right off that I know a 209 doesn't fit in a 223 case, and that would be some of the idea, but am thinking if I could match the velocities and energy of the PCP air rifles (22cal pellet at 100-1200fps). The little lead pellet would be devastating and fairly quiet, I think, on the intended target, ground squirrels under 50yds.

I do not like the spring rifles and the CO2 rifles aren't fast enough, and the PCP rifles are too expensive.

I also realize this would NOT be considered an air rifle, it would still be a firearm with all the restrictions, but would be a LOT cheaper to shoot.

Would the 209 push it out the barrel hot enough? I have no idea how much oomph the 209 primers have. I am NOT interested in trying any powders in this setup. It would most likely melt the little pellet before it left the barrel, plus I am not interested in that kind of velocity.

Shoot a primer out of a slingshot into a concrete wall and see how much power they have ;D They really go bang when they hit the concrete ;D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e/22_Short.JPG

Add a Marlin 39. It's an interesting idea that you have with the .223 case, but repeating would have to be bolt only since there's no power and not really any .223 Remington lever-actions.

Yea I just bought some of those tonight, but not for a Marlin lever (don't have one) but they will be manual cycled through a semi auto (I hope).

This idea has been rattling around in my head for quite a while. Not sure what a 22 pellet weighs but a lot lighter than a 30 or 39gr 22 slug, I'm sure.

Yes it would be bolt, and yes would be single loaded, but I have an idea to speed that up a bit, IF I got the kinda of performance I have in mind.

Outlaw,
I have seen similar, and I know the 209 has a lot more power than most primers, that was why I was wondering. Might try a reg primer first, just as a base line.

I am thinking of turning a 223 case from something solid, with just a 22 cal hole down the center to keep the pressures up, rather than let it expand in the case body, and lose pressure velocity. If I make my own, I could design it for the 209 primer, and make it long enough to place a pellet close to the lands of the 223 chamber.

I thought about 22 blanks and a pellet in a 22 rifle, but I think the blank would be too powerful. Not looking for 2000fps, just 1000-1200 or so.

I bored out .22 rem cases to accept 209 primers and loaded with .22 cal pellets. Very accuraate out of my .222 and fun to shoot but can only get 450 fps Machining a solid case with jus a .22 hole through it may make it a bit faster but I dought it will reach the 1000fps mark.

Steve

Put an O ring on the front of the brass (at the shoulder/neck junction) to keep from loosing pressure
The primer wont have enough pressure to expand the brass to create a tight seal.

http://www.mcace.com/

More "freebore" than a pellet would have, and you still have the problem with too fast of a twist for a lead bullet but you avoid the problems of blowing out the skirt on the air rifle pellet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by outlawkyote

Put an O ring on the front of the brass (at the shoulder/neck junction) to keep from loosing pressure
The primer wont have enough pressure to expand the brass to create a tight seal.

---

I was planning on using a fired brass, but I like the o ring idea. Gas sealing was a concern I had.


Stevec,
Glad I'm not the only one with these wild ideas. How loud was it?

You could also fill a std case with cerosafe, and drill it out with a 1/4" drill down the center to increase the pressure, cheaper and easier than machining a new unit.

How did you swap primers?

I machined the primer hole a little loose soyou could seat them with your thumb but after they were fired had to use a punch to get them out.
Home for lunch right now but this evening I will dig some up and post a pic.

Steve

[img width=600 height=450]http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/stevecphoto/100_0690.jpg[/img]

You can see the punch I use to remove the pimers and seat the pellets(I put them in through the primer hole and give a light tap to flare the skirt and make a snug fit)

very quiet and accurrate just not fast enough. I have dispatched a few close range sparrows though.

Steve

why not use a large rifle magnum primer? they are suppose to have more power than the 209

Tried the large rifle mag primer and the pellet barely cleared the barrel.

Steve

Time for just a snifter of powder??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by louthedog

Time for just a snifter of powder??

---

Just filler up with bullseye and torch er off! :o

I have thought about a pinch of somthing but never have gotten around to it.

Steve

Have you tried an O ring yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by outlawkyote

Have you tried an O ring yet?

---

No, not yet. I havent messed with it in quite a while. every time I buy an action to "keep" my .222 barrel on I end up building somthing else!
Steve

I wonder what a before and after chrono test with the o ring would produce. I'm sure it will up the velocity, just wonder how much.

When I get some free time I gotta try this one. For now those CB rounds are very accurate, but they will richochet way too easy, and even a 29gr slug will hurt something at those speeds.

slightly off topic, but anyone tried one of the Gamo 22 high velocity guns ? (seems like easier... and more law "friendly" :)

Or one of the slower subsonic systems would be quiet if that's a concern

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by knickia

slightly off topic, but anyone tried one of the Gamo 22 high velocity guns ? (seems like easier... and more law "friendly" :)

Or one of the slower subsonic systems would be quiet if that's a concern

---

My son has an AirForce 1100. Shoots great and @ 1100fps critters dont walk away but it dosent feel like a real rifle.

Steve

test

Sorry, was trying to resolve an issue. I did!

I had some primed brass that was splitting at the neck with full power loads so I had to use them for something else. I tried a few things then decided to put some 22 caliber bellets in the end of the case and used only the primer to launch them. They were very quiet and decently accurate out to 25 yards. Drop was about 5 inches but they grouped within an inch. No where near as fast as a 22lr but seemed a littel faster than CB's. The primers were CCI400's and my barrel is 18".

I have used Clays to load some slow stuff but it was inconsistent. I suspect you could use Trailboss and get better results because it is a fluffier powder, filling the case more.

Dolomite

It was common practice where i grew up to use a single shot .22. The way it was done is to remove the bullet from a .22 short, put a peice of cotten in it's place and a drop of wax to hold it there. Take a .22 cleaning rod cut to whatever length needed, insert in barrel and a peice of tape over the end of the barrel.

This is how unwanted critters were removed from the area very quietly, with a .22 long rifle it would penatrate a 2x4. blue

I used to put a small (smallest) lee dipper of 3F in my 22-250 with a standard primer and a Benjamin pellet for backyard duties as a kid. Worked like a charm. Don't forget to clean up real good when done playing.

If I remember right I think Benjamin used to sell 22 cal lead ball; might be something to think about.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/pro...p?number=SBK1F Here is a .220 lead round ball you could use. They also have #TT Buckshot, which is .210" if it would work better...

Sounds like something we have had here in Canada for a while now.

http://www3.telus.net/gamegetter/

Thanks for the ideas.

Did this with a 17 cal K-Hornet out of a Contender pistol. Turned a solid brass case witha 1-16th hole through the length, then drilled for a 17 caliber pellet at the neck and a large rifle mag primer in the base. Was good for head shots on rabbits out to 20 yards. All you heard was the hammer on the Contender falling. ;D ;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Russ

Did this with a 17 cal K-Hornet out of a Contender pistol. Turned a solid brass case witha 1-16th hole through the length, then drilled for a 17 caliber pellet at the neck and a large rifle mag primer in the base. Was good for head shots on rabbits out to 20 yards. All you heard was the hammer on the Contender falling. ;D ;D

---

Thanks, good feedback.

Hmmmm, does anyone know how hard the steel in a "Go" headspace guage is? That would be just about perfect, except for the missing neck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by handirifle

Hmmmm, does anyone know how hard the steel in a "Go" headspace guage is? That would be just about perfect, except for the missing neck!

---

What about taking a case and filling it with JB Weld, letting it harden then drilling it?

Just a thought
Dolomite

once the JB has cured you can turn a groove to hold an O ring without fear of cutting thru the wall of the case.

Keep us posted

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bad Water Bill

once the JB has cured you can turn a groove to hold an O ring without fear of cutting thru the wall of the case.

Keep us posted

---

Could you explain this a bit more for me?

Dolomite is filling the case with JB Weld. Once it has cured you now have a solid object that can not expand and seal the gasses directly into the bbl.

Outlawyote solved that problem by putting an O Ring at the junction of the neck and shoulder. The ring might come off because there is no way of keeping it secure. Now you have an object stuck in the chamber which will be dangerous. Time to pull another bbl.

The brass is to thin to cut a ridge to hold the O Ring without separating shoulder from neck. By using the JB, the cartridge can be drilled to contain the gas in a much smaller area and the ring keeps the gas pushing the pellet out the bbl and not allowing gas to seep into the chamber area.

All of this work can be done with only an electric drill and a file if you use the SLOW setting JB Weld. It will take more than 4 minutes to fill the case with that thick stuff.

Hope this helps

With respect to using an original rifle casing .......... as I recall the drill size for converting it to a current sized shotgun primer was "letter drill ..... C ..... "

Something like .242" ???

(This is from memory and another forum)


Three 44s

I think once you fill the case with JB weld you will get a much more energetic pellet because of the less inside the case. In my original shooting I was using full sized cases with small rifle primers. I bet if you reduced the case capacity and used a small rifle magnum primer you would get a much fast lauch of the pellet.

Just some thoughts
Dolomite

BTW, I haven't tried the JB Weld trick, it was just a after thought.

Will have to give it a go and see what happens.

The biggest trick, MIGHT be to actually find the primers ;D