I just picked up a used model 12 with a serial number that starts with G50xxxx. Any way to determine what the twist rate is? Seems like my choice are 1/7 or 1/9 in the current guns.
Thanks in advance
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I just picked up a used model 12 with a serial number that starts with G50xxxx. Any way to determine what the twist rate is? Seems like my choice are 1/7 or 1/9 in the current guns.
Thanks in advance
Mine is marked on the barrel from the factory (9). Its serial number starts with a K so must be a later production.
If the barrel isn't marked just use a cleaning rod.Hope this helps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJS3tb01NU0
On the side of the barrel where it says savage model 12 223rem, does it say (7 twist) or (9 twist) right after that? Or if not, then it could possibly be a 12twist,
If it doesn’t say on the side of the barrel the best way to check it is with a mark on a cleaning rod with a tight patch or brush, and see how far it takes to get one revolution on the cleaning rod. It might not be an exact measurement, but it should tell you the difference between a 9 or 12.
Or one call to savage with the serial number would probably tell you. if the barrels never been replaced of course.
Since it’s an older G serial number, does the action have a smaller than normal ejection port? Has nothing to do with your barrel twist. I was just curious cause I liked the small port one I had and they no longer make them.
Yours was built from 2001-2009, depending on your exact serial number. Here’s where to figure out exact year in case you’re wondering:
https://www.savageshooters.com/attac...achmentid=2701
Looks like mine was made in 2006. No indication of twist rate on the barrel. There is a mark near the receiver on top "SP16".
I shot it over the weekend briefly. Using hand loads my normal 55 grains loads would not group well. 2" type groups. Switched to 69 gr and those shot groups touching each other. I plan on going back later in the week and put more effort in including shooting some 77gr bullets.
My Model 12 LRPV with a 7 twist threw 55 grain bullets all over the range the first time I shot it. Fortunately, I had some 68 grain Frontier BTHP Match with me. Zeroed in 3 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by qec238
Good to know. I'm happy shooting 69 and heavier bullets if needed. I can use the 55 on my 1/9 AR. Did you try to slow down the 55 gr. loads to see if they will group? Assuming you hand load.
Well, it’s at least 1:9 shooting 69gr pills so well. But something tells me it’s 1:7.
No, don`t hand load. That`s the one and only time I`ve tried 55`s in that gun. The gun REALLY likes 69 grain Sierra Match King bullets as loaded by Australian Defense Industry ( ADI ). Also, 75`s and 77`s shoot fine as would be expected with that twist rate. I`d try some 80`s, but it appears that factory loads above 77 grains are relatively hard ( and I`m sure would be very expensive ) to come by.Quote:
Originally Posted by qec238
If you only have a 1-9 twist the 80's probably won't be stable anyway. 77's are on the ragged edge. I noticed one day near freezing that they had passed the limit.
Sierra says you can use the 90SMK with a 1-7 if you can get the vel up to 2650. The .224 Valkyrie is loaded with the 90gn by Federal.
Just ran the "cleaning rod measure" and it's between 8 and 9". So I'm guessing it's not 1/7. I've loaded a bunch of different 55, 69 and 77 gr loads. Off to the range tomorrow.
It’s 1:9 then because 1:8 was never offered in 223. (As far as I know.) And yes, the 77’s are about on the ragged edge. If the 69’s shot so good, you might simply stay with them.
FWIW, my favorite load in the 22" barrel axis (1-9) was 23.5gn of Varget with the 77gn SMK (2805fps). It gave me consistent groups at 600yd less than MOA, even in a little wind. The Hornady 75gn ELDM was almost as good with the same powder charge, but, when seated out it was too long for the magazine.
I have a Savage LRPV 7 Twist in 223, some 50 and 55g handloads will make it 100yds to the target, others don't, about 1 out 4-5 don't make it. Loves the 68/69g ammo. My barrel is stamped 7T IIRC.
I went back to the range today with a number of different 55 gr loads. None shot well. Both the 69 and 77 grain loads shot very well
Hey GEC,
I am looking at a 2002 ... it is stainless fluted bull barrel model 12 in .223. Did you find the twist? This looks like the ancestor of the LRPV but has a cheaper stock than current model.
Hey Dave... I am looking at a used Model 12 .223 stainless bull barrel with bull fluted barrel.... did these have 1/9s or 1/8s back then? I have a Remington Varmint from that era and it is a 1/12. I would be thrilled if it is a faster twist. The reported accuracy of that other one would seem to indicate this... mine looks to be a 2002.. THANKS ... I need to tell them in the next hour if I want it. The store put a brief hold on it for me. Thanks Mike
Either 1:7 or 1:9 twist. The 1:8 was never offered for the 10/110 series or affiliates, in 223 Rem. 1:8 was only offered on the Savage MSR (AR15) starting in 2018 & with a 223 Wylde chamber.Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermikel
Edit: If your rifle is 2002, it is 1:9 Twist. The 1:7 wasn’t available in the 10/110 for 223 Rem until 2007.
BTW... I am an old Philly kid- Lafayette Hill. Returned to Philly for grad school at Penn. So thanks! Mike L
No kidding? You’s from dis same jawn… like me? How ‘bout dat.Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermikel
Just so you won't think a 1:9 twist limits you to 69 and 70 grain bullets.
My 1:9 marked barrels on my 12 FV and on my CZ 527 both measure out slightly faster than 1:9 twist. As best I can tell with the cleaning rod technique, my 12 FV is about 8.75 or so.
(Dave and other machinists on this forum can attest better than I to how difficult it might be to get a barrel twist precisely to 1:9.)
I tend to believe that the twist rating is a guarantee that the twist is a "not slower than rating" rather than a guarantee that it is precisely right on the rated twist.
Much to my surprise, my 12 FV shoots 77 grain SMKs and TMKs and Nosler CCs and Berger bullets among the best of all the bullet weights.
I then tried 77s with my old (7000 round) CZ 527 1:9 twist and it shot the 77 gr SMKs as well as any other bullet it has ever shot over the years.
My 12 FV shoots 73 gr ELD-Ms better than any other bullet.
It also shoots 68 gr Hornady Match bullets incredibly badly - the worst of any bullets I have ever tried - to a 3x larger group average than 69 grain SMKs, TMKs, and Nosler CCs.
None of that seems to make any sense based upon conventional beliefs.
From my limited knowledge, I believe that performance in any barrel depends on the bullet shape as well as the weight.
The only way for you to figure out what your barrel prefers is to shoot bullets 'down the tube'.
I would recommend that you shoot a lot more than 1 group before you make any decision.
Good points CF. Here’s a great little article speaking of this very thing.
https://riflebarrels.com/twist-machine/
I know the F/TR rifles have a 1:7 but the others I've seen in recent years were all 1:9
I second CFJ's experience with the .223 and 1:9 twist (I did not measure mine). It was on a heavy barrel Axis and it also liked the 77gn target bullets best.
I believe since 2007, a good many of the higher end precision Savage rifles in 223 are 1:7.
Dave, I think I have seen recent 12 LRPV .223s in 1:9 and 1:7 twists.
The 1:7 twists are hard to find.
Yeah, your right. I shouldn’t have put all in there. I’ll edit. Below I linked the history here of Savage twist rates.
https://www.savageshooters.com/conte...t-Rate-History
Update:
My Urban Rifleman barrel showed up today. 1/8" stainless. Replaced the recoil lug and barrel nut as well. Installed it and headed off to the range. Interesting outing.
- After sighting it in I shot 55gr loads for group and they were better then the factory but still sucked. Like 2" suck
- Switched to 68 SMK and shot the next 5 rounds into about 3/8". I've never shot a group that small before. I shot a second 5 round group into about 5/8". Those groups are with abgout 15 rounds down the barrel. Best group I had with the factory barrel was just under an inch.
- 77SMK did not group great for me either. Not as bad as the 55 but noting like the 69gr.
I only had about 30 minutes. I will go back later in the week to spend more time figuring this out. It's now looking like the 55gr issue is mostly related to the bullets. I'm going to pickup a different brand so see if I can do better. Oddly enough my AR15 with a AR Stoner 1/8 barrel shoots the 55gr bullets around an 1 - 1 1/2 inches.
Anyway, love the barrel. It was so easy to install once I had the right tools. Now I thinking about switching over my 308 Model 10 to 6.5CM just to reduce the recoil........ I only money
gec238,
Every barrel has its preferences, so let it tell you what it likes.
It may take a 100 or more rounds to settle in and for you to get a feel for the rifle.
I was shooting my 12 FV .223 on Monday and it averaged just over .3 for 8 5-round groups of 52 ELD-Ms and 53 gr V-Max bullets with winds above 12 mph. It's long term average with those bullets are .295 and .268 respectively for a larger group sample so the last session was slightly worse than the norm.
That same rifle shoots 77 gr SMKs in the .27s and 73 gr Hornady ELD-Ms in the .24s.
Then I shot a CZ 527.223 that I hadn't shot in about 8 years. It's a lighter rifle with a different trigger.
I was surprised at how long it took me to get used to the different feel with a different rifle and get it to group well.
I expect I will have to shoot it again to get near what it is capable of.
Don't be surprised if it takes you a bit of time with a new rifle to get comfortable and consistent with it.
6.5mm CM is a very accurate caliber as is the 6mm CM.
I have three Savages in 6.5mm CM and that is a great caliber to reach out a long way with accuracy.
Two of them with 26-in barrels, a 12 LRP and a 12 FV, shoot almost the same accuracy with the same bullet weights.
The third one with a 24-in barrel likes lighter bullets and is slightly less accurate. It shoots accurately, but just slightly less accurately than the other two.
There is no way you can predict what bullet weight and powder a particular rifle barrel will shoot most accurately without trying different weights and powders.
qec238, sounds like you had a great time and will agree with how easy it is to change barrels.
I've been shooting a Model 11 with a Model 12 26" heavy 223 barrel. It has a 1:9 twist and likes 69gr bullets and 60gr VMAX. Now after shooting two years of competition with it it's starting to show it's age and round count. Will still hold under MOA but struggles to hold .5MOA. So it will probably be getting replaced this summer.
We may have to chat about that Urban Rifleman barrel and his service and pricing.
KMW reach out if you want to talk. Urban uses Wilson blanks and it was an advertised 3 week wait. The barrels are about $320 plus shipping and Visa surcharge.